T500 as a pot still stripper & compression of heads

by **Capt-Cudellez** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:14 am

Been reading over some old threads and was interested in the power mod done on the SS super reflux.

http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/topic.php?id=400
Would anyone see any potential issues in doing this with the T500 boiler if I used a larger 2.5Kw rated controller?
My main reasons for wanting to do this are 2 fold, firstly I would like to be able to be able to remove the packaging, disconnect the reflux cooling and run it as a pot still for flavoured spirits like rum, to push more of the molasses flavour through than Iâ€™m currently getting.

Secondly Iâ€™ve been looking to improve the heads compression on T500, I still get quite a lot of heads (or hearts tainted by heads) when running the T500 slowly, I have been told this could be because the boiler power is so high, so you have to have a really high reflux ratio, which spreads the heads through to the hearts more.

If I insulate the boiler, and the lower column, before pulling off the heads I could dial the power way down to a few hundred watts, let it equalise for a while letting all the nasties accumulate at the top of the column, then pull these off slowly before whacking the power back up for the hearts run.
What do you think?

by **MrCat** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:42 pm

Last run I held the water output temp at 40 degrees for 30 mins before very slowly letting the temp rise to 50 for the first jar. I got all the heads out in the first 400ml jar - I was probably into hearts before the end of the jar.

by **Capt-Cudellez** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:42 pm

Thanks for that MrCat, I seem to be pulling off close to 900ml of heads. I\'ll try running it a bit slower to start, but it bloodly difficult as my tap water is about 6.C to run it that slow is just a trickle.
cud.

by **spiritueuse** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:23 pm

This might seem to be a very naive question but can I ask how you know when all the heads have been drawn off? I do as instructed in the T500 manual and just take off the first 50-100 ml to use as rubbing alcohol. I filter via an Essencia and whilst the results are OK I still don\'t get what I would call a clean Vodka type taste although it is much better than the results I was getting from the air still. I\'ve been using SS triple distilled yeast but am now fermenting my first wash of Vodka Star and will see how that turns out.

by **MrCat** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:24 pm

This is all about making cuts and what you make your wash from.
Your run goes foreshots, heads, hearts, tails.
I collect in 400ml jars, I leave the lids off overnight and then the next day you can smell the differences - I maybe get one jar that has a fruity smell, then three or four jars with no smell and then a couple more with an increasing smell.
I also dip a finger in the jars to \'taste it\' and you can taste a difference I\'d best describe as \'burn\' or heat.
I pick the jars with the least smell and burn and keep them. These are the hearts. These will get cut with filtered water and used with flavourings. I also have a bottle that has 90%+ from one of my first molasses wash that was so nice that I\'ve kept it for very special occasions.
The rest gets thrown in a demi-john and marked for recycling. Once I have enough it goes back through the T500.
To be honest have a look on the HD forums as there are quite a few topics on making cuts. I did a quick search on artisan but can\'t find much there (yet!!)
When I first started I was using turbos and I pretty much tried them all - they all seemed really nice until I did my first molasses wash and it persaded me not to use turbos again. It takes longer to ferment and the yield isn\'t as good but the final product is so much better.
I think it\'s one of those learning curves - I thought turbos were great even though HD and artisan were suggesting maybe they weren\'t but it was only when I tried a non-turbo wash myself I realised they were right.

http://www.artisan-distiller.org/presentations/moonshine/MoonshineGuide.html recipe #2 is the one I use.
Give it a try - hopefully it will work out as well for you as it did for me. No filtering, no carbon in the wash, no turbo clear and great clean output

by **spiritueuse** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:40 pm

Thanks very much for that Mr Cat - looks to be an interesting recipe with corn flakes and tomato paste among other things. I\'ll nip to Tesco\'s later in the week and see what I can find. I was obviously confused with foreshots and heads so thanks for the clarification. I\'ve only been at this for a relatively short time so have plenty to learn but this seems a really nice forum with useful advice from friendly people.

by **MrCat** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:34 pm

No problems - happy to help. Everyone here helped me when I started out so I\'m happy to pass on what I\'ve learnt

The smell of the wash as it ferments is a good indication of what to expect. You end up with a 10% wash that is like a mollases wine. And very tasty.
Tell us how you get on

by **Capt-Cudellez** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:01 am

Well I did another run a few days ago, after warm up managed to hold the top temperature at 70 for 40 mins, then brought it up to 75 for 15 mins, pulling off a surprising amount, maybe 200-300mls. Then brought it up to 78.

After about 400mls couldnâ€™t detect the taint of heads coming off the output so switched jars. Looks like patience is the key, a slow start up, then you can bring the cooling temp up once youâ€™re into the hearts.

I should mention Iâ€™m not using the supplied thermometer on the top, as it never read above 77 until near the end of the run, so was at least a few degrees out. I upgraded and get much closer to what I should be seeing.
Thanks again for your help Mr Cat,
Iâ€™m still planning on getting a controller so I can run without packing or reflux cooling to see if it can be used as a stripper, nothing ventured eh?

by **MrCat** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:55 am

Along those lines I\'m tempted to try and run the T500 with less cooling water in the reflux column - perhaps split the output after the condenser. I figure it will still act as a reflux column but a lot less effectively and it should run much quicker. I really can\'t be bothered stripping the packing out and loading it back in!!
Or - see if I can get another lid for the T500 and... (I hesitate to say it) build a Manu CM column...

by **Capt-Cudellez** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:25 am

Pulling the packing out isnâ€™t all that bad, I made a mistake of trying to run some wine that I couldnâ€™t ferment dry, the remaining sugar in the wash burned and the spirit has a nasty taint. Had to strip the packing to give it a good boil, then washed with vinegar & H2O2.

I found using 2 bowls or pots and shaking the column over one until the copper saddles make an appearance then, shake it over the other bowl, means you have minimum amount of sorting out the ceramic and copper saddles, as that would take some sorting.

by **MrCat** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:20 pm

I found using 2 bowls or pots and shaking the column over one until the copper saddles make an appearance then, shake it over the other bowl, means you have minimum amount of sorting out the ceramic and copper saddles, as that would take some sorting.

Been there and done that three times whilst trying different packing in the column! Seperating rashig rings from the copper saddles was a real PITA...

by **Capt-Cudellez** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:40 pm

Well this afternoon I stripped another molasses wash on my T500. This time I kept the packing in to see how it compared to the run I did with the packing out.

Stripped just over 25L down to 6L in 1 hour 40 Mins after the 1 hour heat up.
So was about 20 mins faster than running with the packing out. I ran on full power for the whole run, the reason I felt I couldnâ€™t do this on the run without the packing was the output was getting really hot and I was worried about overwhelming the condenser, with the packing in there was no problem what so ever, so there must be a degree of natural reflux going on, even with the column insulated.
So for anyone else out there thinking about using the T500 for stripping, you should be able to do it just by bypassing the reflux condenser, without the need for any power mods.

by **MrCat** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:21 am

What ABV did you get ??
I love the smell of the stripped molasses wash - I kept 400mml to one side from the last run, mixed 10ml of glycerine with it and it made a nice unusually flavoured drink

by **Capt-Cudellez** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:04 am

I startded collecting around 65%, and collected right down to about 18%.

I collected in 3L jars, first 3Ltrs averages 50%, the seccond 3Ltrs is 35%.
The smell of dunder is fab, most of mine is for adding to the next ferment, and the rest is going in with the strip on the spirit run.

I do get this fantastic smell from the output just as the boiler comes up to temp, a while before there is any liquid, if I could get my rum to taste like that smell I\'d be chuffed to bits.

by **Capt-Cudellez** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:45 pm

Well, I have just had a very interesting afternoon doing a spirit run on some rum. I have been playing around with the idea of equalising the column for a couple of hours on low power for better heads compression. So today I did this on about 800W for 1.5hours, ran the heads off slowly, and I was out of the heads very quickly.
But after swapping out the heads collecting jar, instead of adjusting the cooling down to start pulling off at a higher rate, I just turned up the boiler to around 1300W. This is where something strange happened, the cooling temp was up around 68*C but the top temp was where is should be, and I was outputting very quickly, around 650mls in the first 15mins, and I maintained these settings over the run and averaged 1.85L/H. All of this was coming off at 94% my usual output.
So by putting less power in and using less cooling on my insulated column (I keep the water running at normal rate to keep the condenser cool, I just split off some of the flow before the reflux) I seem to get a much better pull off rate than in the standard set up. I am very excited about this and believe I should be able to continue to refine this process for the maximum output.