USING MALT EXTRACT.

[Toper]

In the process of learning to use my new still, with its much improved capacity (35L) and means of control by thermometer parrot spout, and heat output, I want to develop a suitable recipe from my washes.

I am not in a position to mash my own barley, though I do want to do a malt wash. This seems to leave me with a choice of L.M.E. or D.M.E., with the various degrees of roast.


In the past I have done a wash using liquid malt extract, loads of sugar and an Alcotec 48 Hours yeast giving a finished wash of some 20% abv

I have also used the same amount of malt with a far less quantity of brewing sugar, together with an Alcotec Whisky yeast. This gave a finished wash of about 12% abv.

In each of the above instances, I was using 3Kg of liquid malt extract. Given a tendency to foam, and using a 4 litre Smart still, I didn't feel inclined to take the malt content any higher.

Optimally, what quantities and roast type of extract (liquid or dry) could anybody suggest?
Add sugar to increase alcohol?
Which yeast?

[Toper]

Having made a bulk purchase of Muntons Cedarex Light, I am now in a position to attempt a better extract recipe than I have previously.

I read with some interest, the document , “'Cloning Glenmorangie” posted by StillWaters ( viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1440 ), but feel that there are a number of things I feel unsure about.

For a 23 litres wash, the recipe call for 6 kg of light malt extract, together with 2 kg of peated malt grain, used as a flavouring adjunct.

My previous experience of LME based recipes for both beers and washes lends me to anticipate that the resulting fermented wash would retain a high degree of viscosity.

(1) Would I be able to distil 23 litres of such a viscous wash in a 35 litre capacity still?


In dealing with the peated malt grain, it is suggested that, “...heat 15 litres of water to 70°C (158°F), add 2 kg peated malt grain, put a lid on it and wrap the pot in towels to hold in the heat. Let it sit for about 1/2 an hour. Strain it through a cotton pillow-case and then rinsing the grains with 4 litres of hot water (77°C, 170°F).

(2) As this peated grain is intended more for flavouring, wouldn't simply simmering it be sufficient to extract the flavour?

There is an instruction to, “Cool the wort as quickly as possible.”

(3) Is there a specific reason for rapid cooling or, is it a matter of greater convenience?

Following the spirit run, it suggests that, “The hearts collected will be somewhere in the vicinity of ~10% in volume of your original wash,”.

(4) Is this sort of return in hearts normal for the quantity (8kg) of ingredients?

Any comments much appreciated,

T.

[Easydrinker]

I'll chip in,and take some flack on your behalf.
Point one,yes I believe so.-My limited experience of LME washes,has not shown the finished product to be seemingly more viscous than any other wash.
The remaining points I will leave to our other AG brewers,that know that of which they speak.
Personally,I am eager to get the definitive reason for a worts chiller,as this is something that I have never understood properly,especially from a distillers point of view.
Robert

[Anavrin]

Hi Toper

There's no problem using 23litres in a 35litre boiler so long as you never allow the wash level to get close to or below the height of the heating element as it boils off, as a rule of thumb, calculate how much alcohol you have in your wash, then double it if pot stilling plus a few litres more, always ensure you know how much distillate you intend to collect when filling your boiler, so that if you have a raised heating element it has enough liquid above it to still be covered when finished.

[Anavrin]

If I was you I would build a cheap mash tun with a cheap supermarket cool box, I bought a 24litre one for £7 from ASDA a few years ago, I made a frame of 15mm copper pipe to fit in the bottom, cut lots of slots in it to allow the liquid through but not the grain and connected it to a plastic king keg tap I fitted in the side, you could do it for around £25 which is about the cost of 3kg of LME.

So it'll soon pay for its self if you buy crushed malted barly and mashing yourself, just use 2 1/2 - 3 times the amount of water to the amount of grain you intend to use, fill the mash tun first with hot water, say 72 degrees, then stir in your grain put the lid on and leave it for 90mins, in this time all the starch in the malted barley will convert to sugar with the help of the natural ensymes already present in the grain, there are methods of calculating the exact strike temperature and volume of your initial mash water, a good on is the strike temp calculator on the Jims Beer Kit website http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/calc.html

As for rapid cooling, that's just to avoid infection problems, it takes a long time for 25 litres of hot water to cool down before you can add the yeast

[Boozoid]

Morning,

1) Dunno..I'd guess it will be fine

2) Keeping the peated grain around 70C for 1/2 an hour is mashing. You are converting starch to sugars. So nope..simmering is totally different.

3) Rapid cooling is more likely to be measure to counteract any possible infection.
If the recipe was AG rapid cooling is used for protein breaks, but I don'think they really apply here.

4) Dunno again. I'm a newbie

[Toper]

Such a rapid response was most helpful.

My doubts regarding viscosity were largely based on my experiences with malt extract beer kits, such as Woodfords, which, using 3kg of LME in 23litres, never gets down, or close to a 1000 reading on a hydrometer. I dreaded to think what sort of reading one might get with some 8kg added to the same 23 litres.

It was for this reason of possible viscosity, that I had doubts as to how much my still might be able to handle.

I feel unsure as to the comment, '...never allow the wash level to get close to or below the height of the heating element as it boils off,...'. The boiler of my system sits on a butane gas burner, so maybe this advice was intended for those with a different form of heating system?

I do, in fact, have the sort of insulated cool box mentioned and had considered its possible use. Is this 'mashing' process the best method to extract the peated flavour from the grain, the greater proportion of fermentable sugars coming from the LME.

Having made up a wash, I have to date left it to cool in a fermenting bin, with lid and airlock in place. So far, fingers crossed, all has been well. I have usually left them overnight and thrown the yeast the next day.

Thank you everybody for your prompt, helpful and polite replies.

I am especially anxious to get things straight in my mind as my intention is, based on the quantities I have bought in, to run four 23 litres washes at the same time. The Muntons' jerry cans each hold 25 kg.
I thought to empty one completely rather keep it opened and part used.

T

[Anavrin]

Hi Toper

I was assuming you were using an electric heating element, if gas then no prob, you can use any amount you like so long as it's not too full to cause problems with puking.

[Toper]

I am trying to finalise the ingredients for my next washes.

On searching for a smoked/peated malt, I cam across the following:
RAUCHMALZ Bavarian Smoked Malt
WEYERMANN Rauch Malt
FAWCETTS Peated Malt Crushed
BRUPAK Whisky Malt (peat smoked -heavy)
BREWFERM Whisky Malt Peated Light
As I understand it, the first two are intended for use in making ales and beers.

I want to make up 23 litres washes, using LME, but adding a peated malt for flavour. Has anybody used any of the above or, can recommend any other?

Also, I came across this high alcohol distiller's yeast:

Has anybody used this, and with what results?

T.

[YHB]

You only get high alcohol if you put lots of sugar in the wash, which I do not think is your I intention. So a standard Yeast is more than enough.

The nutrients that included in the packet of turbo yeast may get the yeasties working too hard and introduce flavours you do not want.

If I were you and was putting a lot of effort into this wash then I would stick to yeast of the Non Turbo variety.

[Toper]

Whilst still attempting to identify and obtain the ingredients for what I like to think of as my first PROPER BREW & RUN , I decided to use up some ingredients I already had to hand.

I have made up two 23 litre washes, each as follows:

3 x 1.5 Kg Brewferm Light Malt Extract @ £4.33 each = £ 12.99
2 kg Brewferm Light Peated Whisky Malt @ £2.83 ea = £5.66
1 kg Dry Light Malt Extract @ £5.60 = £5.60
1 Alcotec Single Strain Whisky Yeast. = £2.90
_____
£ 27.15
x 2 = £ 54.30


Mashed 2kg of peated grain. (Using cool box.)
Placed 4.5 Kg malt extract in fermenter
Added the mash liquor and stirred thoroughly until all dissolved.
Used 4 litres of hot water to rinse grain and then to dissolve the 1 kg dried malt extract.
Then add to fermenter and stirred again to ensure all dissolved.
Left overnight to settle to room temperature.

Specific gravity reading was 1.075

Added Alcotec Single Strain Whisky Yeast to each.

[Toper]

Airlock first burp @ 12.00 noon on 13/11/14.

Bubble rate at airlock about 1 per 40 seconds @ 14.00pm on 16th November, specific gravity reading 1.010.

Will check S.G. Again tomorrow.

T

[Almanac]

Them are quite expensive washes and better produce a damn fine spirit to justify that level of cost.

I currently pay 23 Euro for 25Kg of whole distillers malted barley and even adding sugar and yeast a wash costs me no more than 11Euros and I'm always trying to find ways to cut that too

AM

[Toper]

Aidanmac, I am very much in agreement with you as to cost. Although I have used what I had to hand, and previously intended to use by other methods, in this case I have roughly followed the 'Cloning Glenmorangie' recipe. I did query as to the projected returns from this method , in a previous posting, but nobody took the point up.

My future attempts will be with Muntons Cedarex Light which, at £64.00 for 25kg (£2.56 per kg) was both the best and cheapest that I found available. A major difficulty with Liquid Malt Extract seems to be that there is no legislative control over how much water might be added before it ceases to be Malt Extract and becomes more a Malt Flavoured Liquid..

The bubble rate, this morning, was less than 1 per minute.
The specific gravity reading remained unaltered.
I will leave to settle out for two days and then rack off and de-gas before putting the washes through a strip run.

[Almanac]

Can I suggest investing in a grain mill and buying real malt to mill yourself, as required. I tried the LME road a long time ago and found it very unsatfactory in terms of flavour in the end product. I think it's only suited to making beer for drinking plus it's soooo expensive

AM