To cut or not to cut that is the question??

[Superslim007]

I have been getting some conflicting info so what's what?

So using a 25 Litre Birdwatchers sugar wash

A T500 Reflux still produces on average 94% ABV alcohol, now from what I know the reflux only allows 94% alcohol through the column and most of the non-alcohol falls back into the pot thus producing a neutral spirit which is then brought down to 40% and carbon filtered to remove and residual flavours ultimately producing a clean neutral spirit - Vodka if you will.

Using pot stills to make non neutral spirits need to be cut to remove the fores, heads tails so you eliminate the nasties and undesirable flavours. I get it

So why are some saying that they do cuts with the T500?

I know you remove the first 50-100mls but surely by the way the reflux works and the final carbon filter negates any further cuts. Doesn't it?

[YHB]

When fermenting Yeast produce lots of things and several different types of Alcohol.

The 94% Alcohol you quote is a mixture of all Alcohols produced by the yeast and the tastes of everything else, not all Alcohols are good, not all Alcohols taste good.

Do you get a hangover from the spirits you make? Making cuts gives you the opportunity of removing the fractions that give you hangovers.

Do you want a palatable drink that your friends will like because it is cheap? or do you want a drink that will impress your friends because of the taste? Making cuts will make the difference.

This diagram helped me understand what was going on. There is no magic cut off point between heads / hearts /tails it is a gradual transition and up to each individual which cuts to keep.


Click for a larger image.

Yes, it is extra work some people do not think it worthwhile, it is your call, give it a try once or twice and make your own mind up if the sales pitch by the T500 manufacturer is accurate or not.

If you have not stumbled on it yet Aidanmac's post is a good read.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1365&p=10736&hilit=guide+to+cuts#p10736

Toodlepip

Brian

[Superslim007]

Thanks for the info Brian, one of the things my friends have all commented on is they do not wake up with a hangover after a good session,
I do understand the reason for cuts just trying to find out what the reflux still is capable of, for instance there should be no tails as when it has taken all you need it just stops dripping and just boils without anything else getting out True?
Others have commented on cutting certain things at certain temps but I can't, my T500 only has a thermometer measuring the temp of the water leaving the column.

Some take cuts based on the ABV being produced but my T500 only kicks out between 90-95% or nothing at all.

I certainly don't mind spending the extra time working on cuts it is after all a hobby, just trying to establish if its worth it but I suppose the only way to answer is to try it like you say

Good cuts guide btw but still all of the guides all offer good advice based on the same assumption - that you are using a pot still and not a reflux which surely makes a huge difference ??

[YHB]

Yes you are right the fact that you are using a reflux still makes it a big difference - it makes it a lot harder, the changes are a lot more subtle. I have been making cuts for a year now and at times I still struggle.

I get confused when people talk about making cuts by temperature ABV and the like - this is their way, on their still, for one particular type of wash. Cuts should only be done by smell and taste.

I occasionally get one cut that keeps me trying, I once made alcoholic water, tasteless, only 250ml out of the heart cuts. The cuts either side were good but not the same, that one cut was a keeper but long since gone.

I was told by someone that the carbon filtering got rid of the taste /smell but not the cause of it, I dont know if it is true or not but I keep that in the back of my mind.

It's all good stuff and I will keep making my cuts, if you give it a try then let us know what you find - if not then keep on enjoying it the way you do.

Toodlepip

[Capt-Cudellez]

Start to make cuts, you wont regret it. It might seem wasteful at first, but as you'll re run the portions that don't make the cut, you get most of the alcohol back in the end.

As for the T500 doesn't collect tails, I never found that to be the case. With my current still I can collect tails at close to 95%. The vapour is only about 0.1 to 0.2oC hotter than the hearts.

If your new to making cuts, don't try making the cut during the distillation (by switching to a large container). Collect in smaller containers and decide on the cuts the next day by taste and smell.

Edit:
I meant to add, as a general rule of thumb when running a reflux column. The first 10% of all the alcohol available in the boiler will be take off as heads. So if you have 20L of 30% low wines (6L total alcohol) so the first 630mls will almost certainly be heads, probably more unless you are running really slowly.

[Superslim007]

Right, so I've done a 25 Litre sugar wash which came out at about 14%
I have run it through the T500
First 100mls fores tipped
Now I expected to get about 3 litres of 94ish% so I have collected 300mls as heads
I bought 15 of these 8oz/190mls jam jars and started collecting in them numbered 1-15 which is about the rest of the 3 litres it produced
Tomorrow I will for the first time attempt "cutting" and see what all the fuss is about, though as far as scent goes they all smell the same so that just leaves a difference in taste.
Will let you know how I faired

[Capt-Cudellez]

though as far as scent goes they all smell the same so that just leaves a difference in taste.

At high proof, all you'll smell is alcohol. Take a tablespoon from a jar and put it in a glass with 2 spoons of water. Swirl it, then give it a smell.

Try one from the beginning, and one from the middle. It take a while to get your nose in.

[Superslim007]

though as far as scent goes they all smell the same so that just leaves a difference in taste.

At high proof, all you'll smell is alcohol. Take a tablespoon from a jar and put it in a glass with 2 spoons of water. Swirl it, then give it a smell.

Try one from the beginning, and one from the middle. It take a while to get your nose in.

Will do