Smell from the Airstill

by **jahtubs** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:52 am

My brother got an Airstill over Christmas and I took a couple of gallons of cider I'd made over the summer for him to try while he's waiting for his first wash to ferment. We did the first run and there was a very noticeable mulled cider smell coming from the unit as it warmed up. This was both before the output started and throughout the run. Is it normal to be able to smell the heated wash from the boiler when running these? We went round the lid with a mirror and couldn't find any condensation but was still a bit disconcerting.
Hopefully it's safe, it was a lovely smell and the end product smelt even better

by **hic52** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:08 pm

I always get some sort of smell, if you were doing a sugar wash you get a wine type smell.

Although there is a seal on the airstill its not air tight.

Just watch though for it boiling up and chucking part of the boiling wash out although you have a newer one so the seal maybe better.
I have to use some rings or marbles in mine to stop it boiling up but it doesn\'t always happen.

by **Phantom** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:51 am

Yes, concur with hic52 there. Always some kind of smell, but not usually strong/offensive.
As for the smell when running cider, yes, that\'s what I get. Not strong, but always there. I suppose it\'s the apple esters and congeners that are the lightest of the aromatic compounds.
Plus, as hic52 says, it\'s best if you use some marbles, or rings - or even some pieces of broken glass in the bottom to act as \"boiling stones\" which helps to keep any bubbles produced by the boil to a small size, the over boil thing is when it makes big bubbles, which is why it\'s helpful to keep it away from where anyone might walk past, just in case it does over boil.
Oh and you could always get some distillers conditioner, which is an anti-foaming agent and goes in the still with the wash (or whatever) and you just use a tiny capfull per boil...

by **jahtubs** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:05 am

Thanks for the replies, that\'s put our minds at rest. Glad to hear the smell is normal. The still came with some ceramic rings and conditioner so we were already using those. The lid didn\'t move at all through the run so all good there.
Thanks again!

by **Frank** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:40 am

Hey fellow AirStillers(?) re smell: with my first wash using 8kg dextrose and SS Classic turbo yeast the smell seems to have stayed in the neutral spirit a fair bit after filtering. Its not offensive or a major worry but was wondering if there\'s a simple soluion to get it less smelly/more neutral so eventually it smells like the \'flavour\' when added? BTW I have only tried the carbon cartridge filetering system (two runs through per litre thereof) and will DEFINITELY take up RONBO\'s advice (elsewhere) re filtering using a funnel,cottonwool and activated carbon when I get all those things ... so what else can I try too?

by **Frank** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:13 am

Hey Aidanmac, I\'m onto better filtering ideas now (thanks). Re using 7kg (not 8kg) of dextrose, what does that do re total amount of neutral spirit @,say, 60%ABV distilled (I assume 8kg dextrose in 25 litres turbo wash gets you 700ml @60%ABV neutral spirit per 4 litre still run... times 6 runs = 4.2litres @60%ABV total)?

by **Almanac** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:42 am

Hi Frank, sorry I haven't been back to you on this one but I didn't know your Q was here.
In theory and in a perfect world 8Kg of sugar should finish out at 18.8%ABV. (source homedistiller.org calculators) I say should because I've never got it anywhere near that strength - more like 16% if you're very careful. The fact is that no fermentation will ever convert all the sugar present in a wash and that's worth remembering because if it's not fermented it's still in the wash as sweet sugar.
If there is too much sugar in the wash there is also the risk of the yeast becoming too stressed and dying. Not to mention the fact that no two washes are ever the same - a slight variation in ambient temp and/or running temp, water quality, variation in the yeast batch, etc., etc..
Then there is your still output and that can be another real variable.
My average figures work out like this.
After clearing a wash I'm left with 24 Lt @ 15% - there have been a few disastrous exceptions. I do 6 X 4lt stripping runs in my Airstill and I take a full litre @ 52% from each batch. I then cut the 6Lt @ 52% with 2 Lt of a mix of backwash @ 15-25% from the previous wash and filtered water to give me 2 X 4Lt second run batches with a starting ABV of approx 42%. (It varies a little but these were the figures from last two washes)
On the final runs I take 1.8Lt @75% from each 4Lt batch as my final output giving a total of 3.6Lt and cut this with 3.15Lt spring water giving me 6.75Lt @ 40% ABV which I consider a very good result. This goes through my Essencia Carbon/Ceramic filter and I end up with 9 X 70cl bottles of the cleanest almost odourless neutral spirit I've ever produced and the remaining 450ml or so goes on sample tasting, checking - Hey! it a perk of the Chief Distiller's job!!!
Most important for me is that when my wash is finished fermenting and ready for stilling it must be DRY DRY DRY! no sweetness whatsoever or the 'neutral' spirit will also be sweet - not good for making Vodka.
On your figures your 4.2Lt @ 60% would become 6.3Lt @ 40% which works out close to the same volume as mine but mine won't have the extra Dex in it and no chance of a sweet wash. Finally, a second distilled spirit will always be much cleaner that a single distilled spirit!
If you did a second run you'd end up with about 5.3Lt @ 40%ABV
All round you're better off using less sugar and getting as full a ferment as possible.
Hope you find this helpful. All of this stuff I learned by asking questions here and on other forums and trial and error -lots or error - but I think I'm getting the hang of this complex and very satisfying hobby.
I can make Bourbon Whiskey - which is the only thing I drink - and what I make is better than anything available in the shops. How's that for a result?
A
p.s. Tip for stuck ferment - in a 25Lt wash use 5 teaspoons of Tronozymol nutrient - you'll find it online and most HBS stock it. A friend recommended it, I tried it and it worked!
Stealth Distiller - operating below the radar again! - I hope!

by **Jimmy** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:44 pm

Great post aidanmac, thanks for that!

by **Frank** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:18 am

Hey again Aidanmac and thank you very much for your info. The only bit I am struggling with is where you say

If you did a second run you\'d end up with about 5.3Lt @ 40%ABV

. Is this easy to explain to a learner like me?

by **Almanac** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:57 am

Hi Frank, collectively your 6 X 4Lt runs that give you 4.2Lt @ 60% are what I call a "Stripping Run". It gets rid of the biggest part of the crap from the wash but not enough of it!
When I said "second run" I should have use the term "Final Run". What I meant was putting the product from the stripping run (your 4.2Lt @60%) through the Airstill again after cutting it to 40%.
Also if you are going to do a Stripping Run and then a Final Run you should consider collecting everything on the Stripping Run down to about 50-55% (I go to 52% myself) and I mean collect everything heads and all.
On the Final Run you will discard the first 100ml of each batch as heads then collect a very, very clean spirit - you decide where to cut off and cut what you collect to 40% - this is your "Final" spirit for drinking/flavoring etc..
When you've finished collecting your "Final" spirit let the still run on collecting from each batch in the "Final Run" down to 30% and add what you collect to your next "Final Run" batch
You will lose a little volume doing this and that's normal as the Airstill will only achieve about 80-85% yield at best.
Hope this helps and remember - the cleaner your spirit the better your head - and everything else - the next morning.

AM

by **Frank** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:37 am

Update is.... with a well fermented, 25litre/7kg dextrose wash, I ran three runs for wife\'s liqueurs (she\'s not as fussy as I) then ran another three stripping runs and collected 3x 1 litre (incl foreshots) at 51%ABV. Added about 200ml of 40%abv I had spare, topped to 4 litres with water and did second still run. Got 1.8 litres (quickly too) at about 74%ABV which I cut into 3.4 litres of fabulously unsmelly neutral, carbon fitered it and put in two 1.8l Mason jars from IKEA (one with whiskey barrel oak and one with JD chips) for it to sit until...... A wonderful result and your help/experince has been most appreciated Aidanmac. Thank you.

by **Frank** » Wed May 04, 2011 3:48 am

Hi Aidanmac (at the risk of going completely off thread topic...)using Essencia chunks has been also recommended by my LHBS, so I better do that soon! How long do you reckon I should soak for AND what, if any, added bourbon flavour (and how much) do you recommend with your chunk-soaked neutral to make your \'Best Bourbon\'??

by **Frank** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:58 am

Here's a variation on 'Aidanmacs' double distillation with the airstill....
ran a 6kg sugar, 25 litre, Tomato Paste Wash through in first run and collected four litres (i.e. 4 x 1 litres, minus 50ml foreshots per). The other 2 runs were for wife's liqueurs BTW...

Ok with second run from that 4 litres, I collected 1800ml from start (no foreshot discard) and it was at 83%ABV (+ or - 1%)!!!! It was the best yet re smell, taste (thanx TPW) etc and I watered it to 60%ABV and soaked with Charred Oak Sticks (about 10cm square by 100mm long) for 'months'.

Anyway...who needs essences

by **Frank** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:42 pm

Nice to see your posts back AidanMac....

BTW I now put some copper offcuts (smoothed on the edges) into the Airstill (along with the ceramic boil enhancers) for the stripping runs and this seems to provide a more neutral smelling spirit. I have tried both including and excluding the copper for batches of the same wash and am pretty certain adding the copper is noticeable....something to do with no resident copper in an Airstill perhaps? Anyone know how I could effectively put copper in the Airstill 'vapour path'?

by **Almanac** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:25 am

Ah the eternal question Frank! - not really!
This has been mooted in the thread entitled "What's in you Still" under Distillation.

In a 'real' pot or reflux still this is easy but with an Airstill!

Let us know if you come up with a work-around!

Haven't seen you for a while, How are things with you these days?

AM