Golden Syrup

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DorsetScott
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Golden Syrup

Post by DorsetScott »

So I was doing some baking with the kids today and realised we didn't have any golden syrup for the recipe. Turns out it's easy enough to make, and given the price in the shops it may be an option for the rum heads if you don't mind a bit of faff

300ml water
800 g sugar
4 tablespoons lemon juice

Place the sugar and water in a saucepan and stir to combine. Bring it to a boil, stirring regularly to prevent burning until the sugar is dissolved. Stir very gently to prevent sugar water from splashing up the sides of the saucepan.
Once boiling gently stir in the lemon juice. Reduce the heat to a very low and gentle simmer.
Leave the saucepan uncovered. DO NOT STIR the syrup again. Let it simmer on very low for 40-60 minutes or longer until the sugar is a rich amber colour. If you're using a thermometer the temperature should be about 115-121degrees C.


Turn off the heat and pour the syrup into a glass jar and let it cool completely before closing the jar with tight sealing lid.
I'm not under the affluence of incahol, thinkle only peep I am. Its just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.

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Easydrinker
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Easydrinker »

I can't belive it really tastes the same, or has the same properties.
But, what do I know?
Sounds like a recipe for invert sugar to me.
Wait a minute, Golden syrup is a form of invert sugar! :o

I usually make my Belgian Candi Sugar using Citric acid, not lemon juice. :)

Robert.
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"Everyone's happy. Everyone's smiling. No-One here is sad anymore" :D

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DorsetScott
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by DorsetScott »

I'm no expert but cant taste the difference myself.
I'm not under the affluence of incahol, thinkle only peep I am. Its just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.

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Mash
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Mash »

Easydrinker wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:05 pm
I can't belive it really tastes the same, or has the same properties.
But, what do I know?
Sounds like a recipe for invert sugar to me.
Wait a minute, Golden syrup is a form of invert sugar! :o

I usually make my Belgian Candi Sugar using Citric acid, not lemon juice. :)

Robert.
Wait another minute, lemon juice is a form of citric acid! :o
To Gin-finity and beyond !

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gaza the instructor
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by gaza the instructor »

Mash you are letting all your secrets out.
Mirror-signal-manoeuvre.

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phantom
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by phantom »

Easydrinker wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:05 pm
{snip}
Sounds like a recipe for invert sugar to me.
{snip}
Could it be that the clue is on the tin? ;) ;) ;)
biggoldentin.png
sorry, couldn't resist...........

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Icefever
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Icefever »

Don't you guys remember I emailed T & L and ask them Q's about GS, had a nice email back sating a lot but not telling me anything useful...it was all on the old site.

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Mash
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Mash »

I cannee find it captain!
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Easydrinker
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Easydrinker »

Well, who are the Idjut's here?
Us.
I had never considered the relationshop between GS, Invert Sugar and Belgian Candi sugar.
Turns out to be one and the same, FFS!
In Lidl last week GS was £1.95 a 454g tin, beet sugar 65p a Kg.
Work out the savings yourself.
And I still cannae taste a difference between beet and professed cane sugar....
Snobiculture?
And Lyles GS does not state it's source sugar.

Thank you DS for setting a cat among the pigeons.

Robert.
There is no ONE way.
"Everyone's happy. Everyone's smiling. No-One here is sad anymore" :D

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Easydrinker
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Easydrinker »

And thanks for the pic. phantom.
It helped me compose the above. :)

Robert.
There is no ONE way.
"Everyone's happy. Everyone's smiling. No-One here is sad anymore" :D

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Icefever
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Icefever »

Mash wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:47 pm
I cannee find it captain!
It may be on my old site??? don't think I would have the original still in my old email account??....not to worry.

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Windoe
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Windoe »

I would like to challenge the notion that Belgian Candi Syrup can be made with sugar and an acid. I have usually used an alkaline solution of sugar and DAP. Happy to be proven wrong.

http://ryanbrews.blogspot.com/2012/02/c ... -been.html

Try it and see. I am going to have a go at inverting sugar tomorrow.

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Easydrinker
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Easydrinker »

Thanks Windoe.
I read your link and all 87 comments.
Many ways to skin this rabbit, depending upon how you wish it to taste. :)

Robert.
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"Everyone's happy. Everyone's smiling. No-One here is sad anymore" :D

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Mash
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Mash »

There are many different "sugars" & "syrups" both are a very generic terms which cover a multitude of products.
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phantom
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by phantom »

Easydrinker wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:17 am
<snip>
And Lyles GS does not state it's source sugar.
</snip>

Robert.
For info, all T&L stuff is cane sugar, as is Whitworths - the cane sugar I've got from Lidl/Aldi has been marked as such.

The main beet sugar in UK is British Sugar a.k.a. Silver Spoon (likely others available).

And no, I can't see why you couldn't make a golden syrup clone at home, but I don't know enough about the process, other than it's not difficult...............

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Windoe
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Windoe »

Game on! Is it really going to be golden syrup?
334CE8A3-327F-4E11-8670-3389BED73A83.jpeg
It will answer a couple of other questions for me.

What is the temperature of the safety trip on my turbo airstill work?
Does the DS1820 work at much higher than 100 degrees?

Answers to follow later......

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Windoe
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Windoe »

The results are in.
The Airstill Clone trips at 117, when reset 121 and reset again 125 degrees according to my DS1820 sensor. It tracks within 1 degree of the Comed type K thermocouple probe.

On the plate is the clone syrup on the left and Asda’s finest on the right. I needed to go to 125 degrees to get the same colour. Taste is different, Asda’s has a feint molasses taste (agreeable to me) the clone lacks that quality but still has something different from boiled sugar.
D76B0344-C23C-49F2-B61C-0E0FAD088998.jpeg
I ran 1.5kg sugar with water up to my temperature sensor. At full power to boil, 750watts then 35% (250watts) for the remaining time to avoid burning the pot, potentially achievable in the standard airstill with pre-boiled water. I diluted 50:50 with water at ‘Flameout’ to avoid it cooling into a solid lump, watch out if you do that as the water will boil vigorously.

Experiment 2 will be with sugar, pickling lime and DAP.

I will ferment both experiments in demijohns to see what the yeast think to it.

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DorsetScott
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by DorsetScott »

Really interested to see this thread continued Windoe, great stuff.

As I said, the only reason I made this was I'd run out so couldn't do a side by side comparison, but definitely tasted like I remember GS.
I'm not under the affluence of incahol, thinkle only peep I am. Its just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.

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Windoe
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Windoe »

DorsetScott wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:10 pm
Really interested to see this thread continued Windoe, great stuff.

As I said, the only reason I made this was I'd run out so couldn't do a side by side comparison, but definitely tasted like I remember GS.
I was very excited to see if it was the real McCoy, it’s not far off, I think a teaspoon of black treacle in a Kilo and a half of sugar may be all it needs.

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Windoe
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Windoe »

Experiment 2 results (Mailard reaction)
8BE74B2B-7439-43C7-8034-9E1684AE25B9.jpeg
Completely different animal! I added the water to dilute it down before taking the picture but you may be able to see some traces of white sugar crystals above the liquid line. With the first run there was non of that. Just the amber syrup.

Taste wise, it has no similarity to golden syrup at all. I expected that. The colours on the plate reflect the temperature at the time I dripped them on. Middle row far right is the Asda golden syrup as a comparison. I didn’t expect to run so many rows but as I thought I was going to finish the flavour just went boom as something else popped up and I had to continue. Middle row is the lowest temps, the taste is best described as digestive biscuit getting more intense as the colour darkens. Top row is more complex in flavour, still with a biscuit undertone. I had to leave the kitchen for a few minutes and when I walked back in the smell of baking hit me. The bottom row is even more intense with the candi sugar flavours mingled with roasting grain and perhaps some chocolate?

If you are going to boil up sugar and water I suggest you give this a go. Once it is boiling add an alkali, I normally use a teaspoon of bicarbonate, but today tried a 1/4 teaspoon of slaked lime. Then a couple of teaspoons of DAP or other nitrogen rich yeast nutrient. Stand back as the ammonia is quite overpowering then heat gently, I dialled back to about 150 watts on my pot and let it rip. Stop when you get the taste you like. If you want to store this you have to add a little water to cool it down then boil it back off. I think that pulls out the crystals from the sugar solution so they don’t act as a nucleus over time.

I am contemplating experiment no 3. Invert the sugar then Mailard reaction and see what that brings to the table.
Once this lot has cooled I will get it in a demijohn with the yeast.

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Easydrinker
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Easydrinker »

Nice one!
I will modify my method nezt time I make some, see what happens.
Life is about learning.

Robert.
There is no ONE way.
"Everyone's happy. Everyone's smiling. No-One here is sad anymore" :D

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Mash
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Mash »

Good work indeed. I can see you doing this a few times until you get the results you want, after fermentation.
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Windoe
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Windoe »

I remembered last night I still had a jar of homemade Candi Syrup from last year. I got it out this morning and checked the taste. Different again! Plums and dark chocolate, checking my notes I saw that this one was made at 135-145 degrees using bicarbonate and DAP.
Back to the stove this time. I had also read that Lyles was made with hydrochloride acid and sodium hydroxide. I have both for making PCB’s but I doubt it is anything like food grade. So with this in mind I cracked on with 4kg of sugar one tsp of citric acid per kg and boiled away. I had run out of black treacle (the taste I thought was missing from attempt one) but had a bucket of dunder that I had left out when it was raining and I didn’t want to get wet pouring it away. So I added half a cup of that. It would get sterilised by the boiling process!
Instead of running straight up to 121 degrees I cycled between 110 and 115 with judicious additions of water to invert more of the sugar. By the time I had the colour of golden syrup the flavour was still not quite there, not as smooth and a bit of a bite. I added some lime to neutralise the acid and it was almost spot on taste side by side with the Asda golden syrup. A result.

I carried on adding alkali and then some DAP the colour went dark almost instantly and the flavour started changing, now I was getting toffee and no biscuit. I left it cooking a while to see how things would progress but all I got was a more intense bonfire toffee flavour. Most likely due to the dunder.

So the upshot is I can make a good golden syrup clone thanks to DorsetScott. If I want toffee, Mailard the golden syrup. If I want biscuit and plum avoid using any acid to invert the sugar and dunder.

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DorsetScott
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by DorsetScott »

Glad my random bumbling helped someone 😁
I'm not under the affluence of incahol, thinkle only peep I am. Its just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.

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Mash
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Re: Golden Syrup

Post by Mash »

DorsetScott wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:02 pm
Glad my random bumbling helped someone 😁
I have found it fascinating, just not time to tinker at the moment.
To Gin-finity and beyond !

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