Kimchi ?

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Mash
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Kimchi ?

Post by Mash »

A good friend nipped over last night and brought a gift of 'Kimchi'.

Never tried this and know little about it.

What - why - how - Anybody any idea/experience ?
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phantom
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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by phantom »

Yes. Got about 6 kilo's sitting in my fridge and another 1.8 in the larder.

Presume you mean cabbage kimchi? cos kimchi is just pickled veg, there being many different types...

I make it myself......

Oh and I don't use Napa or Chinese leaf as the soft parts of the leaf go too slimey for my liking. I use bog standard white cabbage and I don't mess around with pasted quarters, I just chop the cabbage roughly, then mix in the paste and pack the jars......

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wormwood
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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by wormwood »

I make it pretty regularly too. Any questions, just fire away.

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Re: Kimchi ?

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Mash wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:54 am


What - why - how - Anybody any idea/experience ?
Ask a silly question!
I have been aware that phantom was into his pickles for a while.
No surprise that wormwood is also clued up.
Pickled veg. I do, fermented veg. is a whole new ball-game. :)

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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by Mash »

I do gherkins. Took a few goes to get it right. But it is a pickle not a lacto fermentation.

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Re: Kimchi ?

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phantom wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:57 am
Yes. Got about 6 kilo's sitting in my fridge and another 1.8 in the larder.

Presume you mean cabbage kimchi? cos kimchi is just pickled veg, there being many different types...

I make it myself......

Oh and I don't use Napa or Chinese leaf as the soft parts of the leaf go too slimey for my liking. I use bog standard white cabbage and I don't mess around with pasted quarters, I just chop the cabbage roughly, then mix in the paste and pack the jars......
Paste? Do you make or is there a good one to purchase?
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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by Mash »

Kimchi pancakes... These sound goooood.

https://mykoreankitchen.com/kimchi-panc ... buchimgae/
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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by phantom »

Mash wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:05 am
Paste? Do you make or is there a good one to purchase?
So with cabbage kimchi, the cabbage will have been soaked in some saltwater, then rinsed and drained well (aim, I believe, is to help some of the liquid/juice come out of the cabbage before it's covered in the paste and then jarred for fermentation).

There's no "shop-bought" paste that I'm aware of (if there were, you'd likely have to have a specifically local Korean grocer/food market place to find it).

Here's a recipe. I've not used this one myself, but found it where I've tried a different version.

the Making of the Korean Kimchi
KIMCHI RECIPE:
Makes approx 3kg of Kimchi
For brining the Leaf (only the leaves require brining)

2kg Chinese Leaf (Nappa Cabbage) cut into 2-3 inch chunks
(for reference - 1 large Chinese Leaf is approximately 1 kg)
½ cup Sea Salt

Wash the leaves thoroughly and cut the leaves in 2-3 inch chunks.

Salt the wet leaves overnight or for a few hours in a large bowl or basin until the leaves are fully brined and soft. Placing a weight on the leaves will help the brining. Turning the leaves around from time to time will help the leaves to brine equally. The water should drain out of the leaves when they are brined.

Check to see if the thick part of the leave is bendy the leaves are brined and ready. You can also cut a thick piece to see if the centre is fully brined.

Once brined drain the leaves well, wash the leaves under running water for a minute, and then soak the leaves in fresh water for about 30 minutes to extract saltiness. Sample and taste a leaf to check if the saltiness has been extracted. There should only be a tint of saltiness left.

Drain the water well by squeezing the leaves with your hands < very important!
Vegetables:

2 cups Daikon, matchsticks
2 cup Carrot, matchsticks
2 cups Celery or Fennel, chopped
2 cups Chives, chopped

Kimchi Paste:

2 cups Korean Gochugaru Chili Flakes (Gochugaru can be found in Korean stores or online)
2 cups Apples or Pear, grated or food processed (FP*)
1 cup Onion, grated or food processed (FP*)
2 tablespoons Garlic Cloves, grated or food processed (FP*)
2 tablespoons Ginger, grated or food processed (FP*)
2 tablespoons Rice Flour (omit if not available)
3 tablespoons Honey or Maple Syrup or any type of sweetner
½ cup Fish Sauce / Nampla (FP*)
for vegan fish sauce option, please see the link below
https://minimalistbaker.com/5-ingredien ... ish-sauce/

(FP* items can be food processed together)

Create the Kimchi paste with the paste ingredients. Set aside a small amount of Kimchi paste to seal the Kimchi at the end.

Mix the brined leaves and vegetables with the Kimchi paste and massage the mixture with you hands until they are fully incorporated.

Place the Kimchi airtight in a sanitised container or jar. Leave about an inch at the top of the container or jar for the Kimchi to breath as it will expand. Seal the surface with a thin layer of Kimchi paste so that there is no vegetable visible on the surface. Then cling film the surface airtight and close the lid. You can also use a ziplock bag which may be easier to keep Kimchi airtight.

Leave the Kimchi to ferment in an ambient room temperature (average 20-25 degrees C) for 7 days. Fermentation will vary depending on your room temperature and environment. The taste of the Kimchi would change very rapidly in the first 5 days. If the temperature is lower, the Kimchi will ferment slowly but a slower ferment will actually give the Kimchi a lot of dept to the flavour and also be less acidic.

To avoid any spillage from the Kimchi expanding, place the container / jar / ziplock bag on a tray or in plastic bag while fermenting.

It will be useful to sample the Kimchi every day and keep a journal of how the Kimchi tastes as it ferments for future reference. Kimchi can be eaten from day one so there is no fixed rule as when the Kimchi is ready. When the Kimchi is fermented to your taste, store the Kimchi in the fridge to slow the fermentation.

Feel free to add, minus or adjust any vegetable to your preference. I used wild garlic in this Kimchi as it was in season.

If you have any live Kimchi, Sauerkraut or anything with live lactic acid (ie Amazake, Miso, SakeKasu, etc), you can add a bit of that in the Kimchi as a starter and it will act as a good lactic acid booster.

Happy Kimchi Fermenting!
www.kinuyukawa.com

I've not tried one that uses fennel and chives. Carrot(grated) and spring onion(fine chopped) instead. The point is, that you can get 3 recipes for ostensibly the same thing, yet while they'll be similar, they'll also be slightly different. Korean chilli flakes aren't that hot, but some makers just use more, some just add the same amount, but add some hot dried chilli (flaked or ground). I like to use a tablespoon of fermented shrimp paste too (extra bit of umami flavour note). Plus I find that it's best to add the rice flour, otherwise the paste mixes up ok, but will have split once the ferment is finished and I like my sauce/paste to cover it all.

This recipe says 7 days, but I do sauerkraut for 2 weeks minimum and because I like to use the shrimp paste in my kimchi, I do the ferment in the fridge(clip top kilner jar) and a minimum for a month.

I could also give you a couple of other recipe versions too, as one of the FB groups I see has them (closed group) and they also do theirs at room temp.

Lots of variables.......

I get my mooli/daikon radish/fish sauce/sticky rice flour/fermented shrimp paste from the nearest Asian/Oriental grocers (doesn't need to be too big as once grated it goes a fair way) and the specifically Korean chilli flakes from SousChef (can't see a listing for Gochugaru chilli flakes there at the moment, but looks like they're listed on Amazon).

Oh, and one that I've seen recommended at my group, is this version.......

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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by phantom »

Just watched the Maangchi video tutorial. Not used squid before (the shrimp paste is my replacement), but I thinking I'll scale it down and make a half batch - maybe even with napa cabbage again and try to stick as close to her recipe/method as possible.

The tutorial looks a bit daunting by quantity, but the Korean traditional diet has some sort of Kimchi with most meals (not always baechu kimchi), hence making it in large quantities.

Korean families will also, often have a separate fridge for storing their fermenting kimchi as it sometimes can get a bit sulphurous during the ferment (recipe and type dependant).

Oh, and the last batch I made, I used both Gochu garu (chilli flakes) and some Gochu jang (chilli paste) - and yes, it's come out quite spicy

This brand was the chilli flakes I used, and this brand of chilli paste. Thinking I might try the one that seems to be called "hot" chilli paste next time (run out of both, so need to stock up anyway).......

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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by Mash »

Righto. Standby. Will get some stuff and have a go.

What size is a good trial - 1 litre jar?
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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by wormwood »

If you're getting into lactofermented veg, I highly recommend these things:

https://www.amazon.com/jen-Kimchi-Conta ... 00SWBJJQ0/

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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by phantom »

I just use the 1.8 ltr clip top (kilner clone) jars from IKEA as they're quite good quality and are generally cheapest (korken range).

I also used Aldi posh pud glass ramekins (same size as Gü brand pud ramekins, but much cheaper) as they fit inside the jars as a press/weight. Of course, you could go traditional Korean and get a suitable size beach stone and sanitise that.....

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Re: Kimchi ?

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A whole new fascinating world that I don't currently have time for.

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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by Mash »

Thanks phantom, that recipe works.

I could of course use the plastic tubs I have.. doh.
In use for pickled wallys they take a saucer nicely.
Ex meal worm tubs... https://images.app.goo.gl/xu8ysY3s9SeoedLb9
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Re: Kimchi ?

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Mash wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:23 am
Thanks phantom, that recipe works.

I could of course use the plastic tubs I have.. doh.
In use for pickled wallys they take a saucer nicely.
Ex meal worm tubs... https://images.app.goo.gl/xu8ysY3s9SeoedLb9
Likely to be a weak spot in the seal that will vent excess CO2 I suspect. Just make sure you've se sort of bowl to stand it in as it will seep some liquid, and if it's anywhere in the open, a cloth thrown over it will prevent any spirts making a mess........

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Re: Kimchi ?

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Yup spot on they do leak. Are we trying to keep the fizz in? (like bottled beer)
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Re: Kimchi ?

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Mash wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:10 am
Yup spot on they do leak. Are we trying to keep the fizz in? (like bottled beer)
No. That's the point of using clip top jars etc, it allows the CO2 to vent like an airlock (they actually do kilners that have got drilled lids that come with an airlock, presume a grommet too).

But it's a preservation method and using the fridge helps keep the process slow and gentle (cold winters in much of Korea for the big ceramic crocks used with the veg being held down by a sanitised beach stone).........

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Re: Kimchi ?

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I think we might be talking about different clip top jars.

https://images.app.goo.gl/4PtiDzAoSqGSpvPM8

I use these and they are absolutely airtight. However a small length of butchers string allows pressure release.

Are you using these?

https://www.kilnerjar.co.uk/index.php/k ... n-set.html
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Re: Kimchi ?

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Ps. It is day one. Just washed off the salt and rammed it in a jar.

One Cabbage has hardly touched the sides!
20200804_080551.jpg
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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by phantom »

Mash wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:26 am
Ps. It is day one. Just washed off the salt and rammed it in a jar.

1 Cabbage has hardly touched the sides!

20200804_080551.jpg
Have a look at that Maangchi video tutorial and compare the end colour. That's the sort of appearance I've been aiming for.

My latest one isn't far off, but was gonna make a batch as close as I could to her method/recipe but also the recipe I posted.

As a sort of benchmark, to know or try to know the base flavour of something as authentic as o can achieve.......

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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by phantom »

And yes I was thinking of both those types of jars. Not tried an airlock model yet.

All mine are like the first style you linked, but round, not square.....

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Re: Kimchi ?

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Please enlighten me.
Is Kimchi primarily about;
Preservation
Taste/palatability
Some Asian health/spiritual thing?
Or a mix of all three?
I admit to being a bit stupid, but appreciate pickling of veg. for preservation.
What does fermenting bring to the table, intoxicating veg?
Genuinley interested in why people do it,
In an age of fridges and freezers.
Wiki tellls me it is about preservation and "It is highly nutritious and offers deeply-flavored and spicy meals".
Is it that simple?

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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by phantom »

Easydrinker wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:59 pm
Please enlighten me.
Is Kimchi primarily about;
Preservation
Taste/palatability
Some Asian health/spiritual thing?
Or a mix of all three?
I admit to being a bit stupid, but appreciate pickling of veg. for preservation.
What does fermenting bring to the table, intoxicating veg?
Genuinley interested in why people do it,
In an age of fridges and freezers.
Wiki tellls me it is about preservation and "It is highly nutritious and offers deeply-flavored and spicy meals".
Is it that simple?

Robert.
I have to presume it's root are for preservation from before the age of refrigeration etc.

Not using vinegar reduces gut acid issues and maintains a higher nutritional value. The historic Korean diet wasn't as "veg and fish" as the Japanese, as it seems to have always included more meats. Kimchi type fermentation is very healthy and provides high levels of probiotics to enhance gut biome conditions.

Yes, they are happy to incorporate new ingredients, specifically the chilli in cabbage kimchi mixes, but it's still seemingly, about "balance" with much influence from Buddhisms ideas/teachings. If you took a look, Korean (and Vietnam I believe) you do find lots of ginger and garlic (and chilli for that matter, but that's more 17th century onward) used.

Many things "balancing" in ways we don't generally do, so sweet and sour, hot and sour, sweet and salt/savoury etc. Plus the actual ingredients seem to encourage a layering of flavours not generally done in European cuisines. Geographic and Meteorological difference has a lot to do with methods/techniques, the hotter summers on some very fertile lands but with the colder winters of Asiatic influence (so get it grown, stored/preserved while you can.

The flavour/spicing levels aren't generally as "in your face" as we might do. More subtle than here often, but they don't have as greater influence from India or the Americas as we do.........

If you looked at the video tutorial link to Maangchi, the thing that takes the time is the salting and rinsing of the cabbage. The rest is done in about 20 minutes, half an hour. Which is no different from the sauerkraut I make. I use the food processor to chop my cabbage (I also grate the cores, perfectly edible and no effort with the grating kit on the processor). I weigh out my salt and scrunch it in well, then it's the waiting game, 2 to about 6 hours while the salt pulls the juice from the veg. So maybe a half hour to chop the veg, then the wait, then mix in the spices I like and packing the jars takes me 45 minute to an hour, then it's just put in the larder (or fridge for my kimchi as I like to use some fermented shrimp paste in it) and a fortnight later I've got a batch of kraut to go.

That's when you start looking for Polish and German inspired recipes. Given your access to game meats etc, Bigos, the Polish "hunters stew" would be a good one. But I also find straight sauerkraut goes with sausage much better than the more traditional fried onions.....

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Re: Kimchi ?

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I also think it is a lot more natural that a lot of the processed shite in the supermarkets and easier on the planets resources.

And tasty...
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Re: Kimchi ?

Post by Easydrinker »

Thanks for the response phantom, food for thought.
Mash, I suspect that most here are aware of how shite processed food is, but tell it to them one more time,.
If someone can grow and eat a single carrot, pea, bean, whatever, and say it was shite, then they are the spawn of Satan and deserve the consequences. :lol:

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