SS Reflux Still

[Opus 27]

OK I\'m back seeking guidance. I\'m now using \"Rashig Rings\" as packing and I\'m getting varying results, no consistency with output ABV%. I\'ve done a lot of reading about reflux and how it works which suggests I\'m not actualy achieving my optimum reflux.

On a conventional internal reflux colum the packing is filled to the top cooling pipe which cuts through the colum from the condenser. As the SS colum has a cooling sleeve around the colum do I fill the packing to this point rather than to the crossover tube at the top. Secondly the normal method for determining coolant flow is to set it to create 100% reflux and then reducing the flow gradualy until the required spirit output rate is achieved. This does\'nt tie up with any instruction from Still Spirits.

I know this type of still is not going to function exactly like a true reflux but I assume there has to be some simalarity in operating techniques. Hope that all makes sense and someone might of done some experimenting that will give some guidance.
Opus

[Phantom]

Well because of it being a PITA to connect up my water supply at the moment, I\'ve done all my recent runs as sort of \"stripping\" runs but slowly with my table top still, so when I\'ve enough spirit in the 50 to 60% range, I\'ll let that down to 40% and then run it in the reflux.
The things that need to be considered, are that there is only really a small amount of adjustment i.e. the type of packing in the reflux section and the speed of water flow.
So the possible controls being so limited, also means that the changes that can be made are limited. For instance, the last time I tried using copper mesh instead of rings, I obviously packed it too tightly and this created about as much reflux as possible in the relatively small space of the reflux section, the result was that it came out of the still very slowly and it took nearly 12 hours to get about 3.5 litres @ 90% ABV so whether that meant that I\'d done it right and managed to increase the reflux ratio so that the spirit was getting out of the still but slowly, or whether I shouldn\'t have packed it so tightly, I don\'t know.....
It\'s one of the reasons I\'ve stuck to using saddles for the main part.
The reason for collecting up 50 to 60% spirit until I\'ve got enough to run the reflux for a \"distillation\" run, is because I\'m trying to see how I get on with following the guidance at homedistiller - I\'m not expecting any miracles though, I follow that the whole point of the SS reflux is more about ease of manufacturing than it is about efficiency.
If I can achieve 90% regularly, then that\'d be fine.
It\'s also one of the reasons why I\'m messing around with yeasts etc, because I also see variations in what I get out of the table top still. I\'ve yet to have a batch of wash finish as low as 0.980, it\'s usually between 0.985 and 0.990 - it would be nice to see a consistent 60% ABV from it, but I\'ve sampled between 62% and down to 55% and seen similar variations with the reflux still.
Apart from changing the packing, the only other thing I could do, would be to get one of those water pressure stabilisers (used for caravans I believe) as the water pressure here is unstable, not just because of the pipework in the house, but because of the fluctuating mains pressure as well.
Don\'t know if any of that is actually answering your point Opus, or whether it\'s just a case of not only scaling up the still from table top to reflux, but scaling up the batches of wash as well so you can run the reflux as a stripping still, with no packing and the pipework just connected to the condenser, and then when you\'ve collected enough to run the still in full reflux mode (with either rings or copper mesh)...... which is my basic plan to achieve the maximum purity possible with it.

[Opus 27]

Thanks for that Phantom. So far I\'ve been running the wash in the Reflux still and getting between 75%-88% in one run thats smelling and tasting pretty good but as I said inconsistant. On the subject of water pressure I\'m in the position of having a garage annexe thats soon to be empty once we move the Austin 7 body into the workshop so I will have a permanant location with electrics,water and drainage. What I was loking at doing was installing a header tank with a ball valve as a cooling water supply. Providing that there isn\'t to wide a level with the on off cycle of the ball valve this should give a reasonably even pressure. The bit I\'m really unclear about is the height of the reflux packing (HETP I believe?).
Opus

[Phantom]

so I will have a permanant location with electrics,water and drainage. What I was loking at doing was installing a header tank with a ball valve as a cooling water supply. Providing that there isn't to wide a level with the on off cycle of the ball valve this should give a reasonably even pressure. The bit I'm really unclear about is the height of the reflux packing (HETP I believe?).

Don't forget that if you're going down the "header tank" or barrel route, then it needs a pump somewhere in the circuit either to get the cooling water down to the condenser or to pull it through and back into the header/barrel. So it (the header or barrel) does need to be reasonably large otherwise you end up with the "cooling water getting too warm" issue.
Me ? I've also thought about that so I've been on the lookout for a working (second hand/used) bar chiller to put in circuit. That way the water out of the condenser is chilled before it goes back into the cooling circuit. So it'd be feasible to use a 225 litre barrel for the cooling supply, and is unlikely to be a problem at any time of the year (i.e. take it out of the loop during the winter and have it in the loop during the summer). Along with the bonuses of fixed pressure and flow rate to the condenser...........
As for the height of packing ? well as I understand it, it's only something that applies when using taller reflux columns to allow for extra refluxing. I know that there's a fair amount of info over at homedistiller.org, but until I've got a half decent condenser head built (and the connection to the barrel I got) I won't be able to have a play with different heights of packing....
so it'll only be a case of reading the stuff over at homedistiller to get my head round it for best results.....

[Opus 27]

Like you Phantom I\'ve been looking at the Homedistiller site and saved a lot of their info. What I have discovered by playing is how much I can control the reflux by the tap supplying the cooling. So much so that when I got to 82 degrees output virtualy stopped I then reduced the flow slightly and temperature started to rise I continued tweaking the coolant flow upto 97degrees and collected a batch of 75% ABV . But this is 2-propanol and 1-propanol as I understand it so I\'m not sure what to do with it other than sling it. The middle cut, ie the good stuff, was 86%. Rashig rings were filled level with the cooling colar. Only problem with all this enthusiasum is I\'m now looking at building a proper internal reflux head. Where do we stop?
Opus

[Bottleofrum]

I thought ill post on here about my distillers pump i bought from brewcraft.

took 2 weeks to get to me (AUS-UK)Had to buy a power adaptor and all works.

Used it on my still and got a steady pressure throught my run(adjustable speed). overall cost 25pounds and saves on water as I fill a spare 20l bucket with water and also fill bottles full of water and put in the freezer as they become your water coolers, (have a few as the water from outlet get quite hot)and when you are finished you can re-use the same bucket of water because its only for cooling, they even recommend adding a drop of bleech to the water just to keep smells out. overall quite happy as im on a water meter and i dont have to worrie about water pressure one bit.

[Opus 27]

Sounds usefull!
Opus27

[Bottleofrum]

yeah, really makes it easy to use, and i dont have to be next to any water supply

or drain.

[billmcc]

Hi there,if you have a look at the hombrew mega store online they sell the essencia still packing this is also suitable for the still spirits super reflux it comes as three copper pot scrubbers fit all three into the column and pack them down to just under the crossover pipe.they also sell a digital temp probe that is easy to read and also reduces the height of the still.with 24ltr of wash in your still turn on the power and it should take 90 mins to warm up.if you dont have a power controller the still will require 2 to 2.5 litre of water per min if you do have a controller once its temp is up to 60 deg c reduce the power to 800 watts and the water should be set to about 400mls per min to maintain distillation temp at 78 deg c.without a power controller and with this packing installed you can achieve 90 abv and distill at 1 litre per hour with a power controller you can achieve 92 - 94 abv but only distill at 750 mls an hour
Cheers

[optic]

Cheers mate
I have one more wash to strip which will give me 25ltrs around 40%ABV,so im going to do a spirit run eventually,have got a power controller and a wattage meter so will give it a go using Opus method.Think I may invest in some of the copper packing.

Optic

[Opus 27]

A bit behind with threads and just catching up (Health & Family Issues) Billmcc's comments on the 9th are spot on to what I achieve on a regular basis right down to the 750 Mls p.h. My only difference's being slightly less wash, about 18 litres and slightly less power, about 700-750 watts. A guaranteed 92-93% ABV.

Opus

[Almanac]

Only just spotted the stats posted here. At 750ml/h the 15lt I currently get from a spirit run from a 40lt charge in my 50lt potstill would take 20 hours to produce.

I'm trying to relate this to my VM column which is due it's first run this coming weekend and I'm thinking that kind of timeframe wouldn't be workable for me - limited attention span.

Hopefully my machine will provide a better take-off rate.

I've got everything crossed now, fingers toes, legs, eyes..... and I wonder why I keep falling over!

AM