Home Distilling and the Law

[hic52]

you could always plead insanity due to ethanol affecting the brain lol

[Hoot]

Hi Mark,

It has taken me a moment or two to inwardly digest all you have said, and I am still pondering. I,m sure I have the part No. for the cooker control. Been a bit pushed today, but I will sort it over the week-end and perhaps sketch something out and scan it in if that’s possible here. (A picture tells a thousand words etc.) I have a feeling there may just be a light at the end of the tunnel.
As for building your own still, it’s really not that complex – it certainly isn’t rocket science. At least as far as the column is concerned. (How many plumbers do you know, qualified in astrophysics?) I simply read quite a bit about it, bought some copper and other bits, and started. The still head and Liebig condenser have to be right and there are a few serious bits about lead and ‘keeping it copper’ and a few fiddly bits about needle valves and good temperature control in the column and head, but it is all very ‘doable’ As you know the problem for me arrived when I thought I would try to convert an old immersion tank. Hind sight being what it is –it would be far simpler to buy one constructed by a proper workshop to your own spec and much easier on time energy curses and heartache. There are any number of ‘monsters’ that lay in wait for the hapless unseasoned amateur.
It is of course still a work in progress, but it’s not far off now. The end product is likely to look very appellation mountain-ish and the whole thing dwarfed by a huge steam locomotive temperature gauge that I felt duty bound to incorporate..(Probably more for effect but approach with caution) Anyway it will all be to no avail if I can’t sort out the heaters.- fancy a glass of cold mash?
Incidentally, the immersion heaters do come wired to their own thermostats, but I’ve by-passed them believing they would be more trouble than they are worth – I doubt they would get up to temperature before cutting out whereas the cooker control should be a little more persuasive.

Very best to you,

Hoot.

[Capt-Cudellez]

Hi, have you considered using a phase angle controller?

This one is rated at 15amps, which is ideal, although you will have to fit it with an additional heatsink for it to be operate at that level.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Phase-Angle-A ... 43a539e71c
This one is rated at 25Amps, already fitted with a large heatsink, but its twice the price.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-UAL-Phase-Ang ... 5197dc3a3e
Or if your competent with electronics, you could build your own for much less using one of these as a base,

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNITED-AUTOMATION ... 2310b39c0e

This wont have any RFI filtering, so might make any fluorescents near by flicker when in use.
If you not in a hurry, trawl ebay for a few weeks, an auction may come up and you get lucky.
CC

[Capt-Cudellez]

Sorry, just noticed that first link I sent you is a heater control with only 3 settings, you may be better off with one that is infinitely adjustable as you can set the power you want, letting you use it on a pot still also, but if your only refluxing that might do you for your needs. I’d still go for a 0-98% adjustable one though – more fiddling potential :-) something like this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-UAL-Phase-Ang ... 43a539e6b8
CC

[guymark]

I would reckon the immersion heater element thermostat you already have MIGHT be worth a look - after all, they usually go right through to 95C and if you are wanting to boil mash you could have a bypass switch for them - but otherwise have them set down in the severnties?
The Phase angle controller suggested by Capt-Cudellez sounds like a good plan too though a shade on the pricey side. I am guessing this is a TRIAC device again (dimmer design) but I am not sure.
As at 750W, even a 2.2KVA (intermittent rating) site transformer would give you some help here - and although bulky can at least be had for about £20 second hand if a bit tatty and it is local enough to collect.
( Thinking out loud : - It DOES occur to me, that if people combined skills (copper pipe working, lid modification to standard tea-urn type boilers, electrical control etc), between a little group of us, we could do "kits-o-bits" to help people build their own reflux stills. The electronics for safe heat control (thristor triggered triac and a bit of a basic filter etc) really is "change from a fiver" sort of stuff if made in any modest quantity. It is the time taken to make a one-off and the lack of one-off components that make it hard for others. Making a batch of units - either ready assembled in boxes OR as a PCB to fit inside a metal "back box" and front plate that they provide and it becomes less of a headache.
Then other folks could concentrate on making the copperwork while another person modifies the boiler lids to enable them to have a cap for normal tea urn use, a bung for mashing or a reflux top for stilling. Someone else sorting out the water cooling coiling / temp control and a final person (or the same one doing the heater control) making a low hysterisis (for accuracy of temp maintenance) trigger to work the heater controller. With everyuone doing just one or two bits they are good at, it might be interesting to find how inexpensively (but still making a little to make it worthwhile as well as fun) a version of a T500 could be made.
The unmodified boilers seem to be around £55 for a 26 litre one, add to that the cost of copper pipe and £10 of control electronics (for heater control and thermostat) and you are probably not far of "base cost". I would guess there is room for a fair profit for work and still give an amazing deal to someone wanting a ready-to-go mash boiler-come-still. )
Finally as a reward for putting up with my waffling and "thinking out loud", I have just found this link while hunting for boiler prices - it might be of interest to you. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENUINE-BURCO-HOT ... 1e557a0f68
It is a 30C - 110C adjustable thermostat and I suspect if you ask them, it might be rated for 3KW. If not, then it could be used to simply switch a 16A / 20A relay for you. If it ISN'T rated for 3KW, then message me for my address to bung me a large SAE and I will donate a 20A mains rate relay to the cause - the coil will be 12v but this means the thermostat need not be securely housed (low voltage only on it). You will need a little 12v power supply though (or anything from about 10v to 16v will do if you have an old plug-top power supply from an old gadget that long since died. I will supply the relay with a metre or two of soldered "mains tails" for live in and live out and then some thinner wire to connect to the power supply and thermostat. All it will cost you is an SAE (but make sure it is a LARGE SAE stamp or the buggers will sting you for under carriage.
The only "irk" is that I do not know what the hysterisis is on these things - no use having it cut off at 79C but then not come back on until it drops to 65C - but if it controls within a couple of degrees, it ought to do very nicely indeed.
Mark
ps:

Although I have only a couple of heavy current 12v relays to hand, if anyone needs a relay with a 24 coil rated for at LEAST 16A (some 30A), I have a few kicking about from a project I have done. If you need ONE, bung me an SAE with a LARGE envelope stamp on and it can be yours If you REALLY need 30A, you can have one of those, otherwise, it will be whatever I find first out of 16A, 20A or 30A It just depends on whether you have a little old power supply that can provide at least 20v to work the coil.

[Hoot]

Hello again Mark,

Afraid I\'ve been a bit backwards in coming forwards of late. However, wanted to say thanks for that Berco- Boiler link and all the other bits - most useful. I remember trawling for hours in the early stages of construction but did not find that site. Will be useful in time no doubt. It\'s a case of \'if only\' because I could have gone down that road but oh isn\'t hindsight a wonderful thing. Anyway you did give me many thoughts to be going on with to refine my boiler heating function but I haven\'t cracked it yet so it\'s still a work in progress. I drew out a plan of what I was doing with the intention of attaching this for your delectation but could not find a means of scanning it in and sending on this site. If you want to let me have an email or something like, I will send as an attachment, you could also send a wiring diagram for your electronic wizardry and hocus pocus focus etc. In the interim I\'m having a break from it for a day or two and shall return with a vengeance whilst the mash doth stand. Best to you for now. Hoot.

[RickyRasper]

I have found the HMRC very intransitive when it comes to providing information on home distillation on a small scale. I have for some time wanted to start an ARTISAN distillery. Small to the HMRC means less than 1800 liters. I live in Northern Ireland and despite the fact that we have a tradition of whisky production all of the applications for small still distilleries have been rejected out of hand in fact no distilation licences have been granted to Northern Ireland in over 70 years!
Imagine my frustration when I discovered that the HMRC granted 7 distillation licences last year to businesses based in London NO NOT FOR GIN BUT FOR WHISKY!!!
It would seen that the world in the UK revolves around London. If you challenge the HMRC for the written law regarding licencing and duty on stills under 1800 liters they will not provide it for the simple reason that no such laws exist!

[LJC]

Hi Newbie here!

This is a bit of a cry for help as i feel like i keep heading down dead end roads. I have tried the authorities and even people doing it now but no one can give me a clear answer.

If, in another world i wanted to start up a micro distillery in my house, using either Sacred Spirits or the Cambridge Distillery as the business plan:-

-What licences do i need to distill? and does the method matter (Sacred use a different method to the norm)
-How long does it take to get and how much are these licences?
-What are the laws in selling? Can i remove part of this process i.e. get another company to do the bottling for me? To reduce costs?
-Do i have to store certain ingrediants off site?

If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated!

[YHB]

It may help if we new which country you wanted to start building your distillery in, the answers to your questions will be different for each country.

If it's the UK then this link should answer most of your queries.
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPort ... e=document

[LJC]

Yes the UK - sorry about that.

Will check out the link - thanks for your help.

[LJC]

Ok. So what about selling the product?

[YHB]

Just had a look at the sacred site - they appear to be rectifiers rather than distillers for which a different license is required.

https://www.gov.uk/alcohol-duties

The bit about rectifying and compounding is about half way down.

Selling? what are you selling to who? wholesale, retail, off licence or on licence? I am sure that all are slightly different, perhaps an accountant or even the Local Custom and Excise office would be the people to talk to.

[LJC]

Thank you for your help.