FAQ T500-water temp reads too low/run takes a very long time

[MrCat]

If the water temperature reading is far too low and never climbs as the boiler heats up AND/OR a run takes over 8 hours or so - we've heard of 11 hour+ runs

It is not uncommon for the "water in hose" to be connected to where the "water out hose" should be.

Trace the hose from the tap/needle valve. It should be going into the bottom of the slim tube on the right of the column (when viewed as per this photo) just below where the temperature displays are.

The output water should come from the left hand side of the fat tube which is the column. It exits just below the water temperature sensor

[Capt-Cudellez]

20 views and no comments - so here goes. Nice on Mr Cat, thats a great pic to clear the confusion up (but surely red for the hot side )

[MrCat]

I thought that as it seems to be the most common problem we are seeing with the T500 that I'd do a sticky FAQ

I did the red first as that was the important one - the just randomly picked a colour for the other side - it was only when I uploaded it and looked at the post I thought "ooops"

I emailed Still Spirits as well suggesting they add this problem to their FAQ and got a nice positive response back.

[edwatters]

I did my first run yesterday on my t500 and I ran it at 55-60 and it took three hours to complete.

[Aftica]

Can there be other reasons for a slow collection rate?

I started my first run with a T500 (Hoses are correct) - averaging between 55 and 62 degrees C (occasional fluctuation due to well pump kicking in but pretty good)... I used my thermopen to confirm the still spirits thermometer and its within a 1/2 degree.

Well I have been 1 hour since the first drop produced and I got 75 ml fores/heads... At this rate I will be here for 48 hours to finish this run!

This was a turbo classic that was 21L water to 9kg of dextrose and it fermented out to .986

[Anavrin]

Hi Aftica and welcome, I don't use a T500 but I suspect your mains water is too cold at this time of year, especially today, if your T500 is an older model and has two thermometers you'll see from the top one it's probably lower than 80°c.

You will need to reduce your cooling in order to increase your collection rate, try to get 1 litre/hour and check if your product is the %alc you expect, I'm guessing the T500 will give around 93%ish.

If the % is too low then slowly increase the cooling until it's where you want it to be.

Like I said I don't have one so this is the best advice I can give

[Aftica]

Thanks Anavrin... You may have it! It took almost 2 hours and I collected 170ml which I have discarded. I have now reduced my water flow and the temp (I only have the one thermometer) is averaging 72-76 degrees... and my output has increased to the rate that resembles a semi steady stream the size of (or a little smaller) the tiny point of a toothpick.. and then a few dribbles etc...

I took a sample in my hydrometer jar and took an alcohol meter reading... 95% at 85F and the spirit meter is calibrated for 60F

[Icefever]

I took a sample in my hydrometer jar and took an alcohol meter reading... 95% at 85F and the spirit meter is calibrated for 60F

Hi & welcome Aftica...one little point, are you sure your Hydrometer is calibrated at 60F?? most are 68f/20c. It's nothing to worry about, just it'll give you a slightly higher reading that's all.

As it's your first run well done, it does get a little easier from now on...

[Admiral Toad]

Couple of other thoughts
If your water outlet temperature gauge is much above 65 degrees that's too hot with not enough reflux happening so abv and quality will drop markedly but with fast output

A few things to check you have got temperature gauge set to Celsius maybe one of them is faulty so check by putting both probes in some warm water and compare readings.
Also I found that if the probe isn't pushed in far enough then that can give a false reading
Finally give the top of the column a good few taps with a wooden spoon once set up to clear the reflux coil that always seemed to perk up output
What wash did you have in the boiler ?

Oh and welcome to the forum

[Aftica]

Sorry for the delay in getting back and responding - Work always calls

You will need to reduce your cooling in order to increase your collection rate, try to get 1 litre/hour and check if your product is the %alc you expect

Yeah it took 2 hours to collect the 170ml of fores / heads keeping it at 55 to 65 degrees C. Once I threw out that portion I ended up running the still (Single thermometer) at between 72 to 80 degrees C which produced the semi steady stream the size of (or a little smaller) than the tiny point of a toothpick.. and then a few dribbles etc... It was very difficult to keep a steady temp - I think I will need to look into a pump device like the Still Spirits Water Flow Regulator if it is available in North America.

Once I stated getting that flow rate I was able to collect about 2600ml in just over 2 hours... I shut it down at that point - was getting late and had to work the next day.

Mt Water from the tap is quite cold. (I just checked it and it is 6 degrees C) I am on a deep drilled well. it probably gets even colder when running for a long time.

one little point, are you sure your Hydrometer is calibrated at 60F?? most are 68f/20c. It's nothing to worry about, just it'll give you a slightly higher reading that's all.

Yep - I thought it was low compared to my Hydrometers for beer and wine but I double checked it - says Proof & Tralles scale for spirit U.S. custom House Temp 60 deg F. It is made by AllA in France.

I just poured out some into a test jar (I have not diluted it yet) to retest it. It is 66 degrees F and it measures 91 percent 181 proof. now if I read the chart that comes with the meter correctly it should be 179 proof or 90% after adjusted for temperature.

I would have liked it a little better but for my first try I am happy. There is no scent to the product. I don't think I will dilute back down to 30 percent and re-distill it.

Couple of other thoughts
If your water outlet temperature gauge is much above 65 degrees that's too hot with not enough reflux happening so abv and quality will drop markedly but with fast output

Yeah and this is where I am getting confused... cause like I said - at 65 I would get about 1 drop of product every 10 seconds.. and you read above the rate I was getting and percentage running at 75+ - so I wonder about the temp of the inlet water as Anavrin suggested and how it affects the operation of the column.

A few things to check you have got temperature gauge set to Celsius maybe one of them is faulty so check by putting both probes in some warm water and compare readings.
Also I found that if the probe isn't pushed in far enough then that can give a false reading

Yep it is definitely in C and I checked it against my electronic thermo pen - and they match within 1/2 a degree. I also checked it while it was operating by placing the thermopen into the outlet stream and again it matched the reading of the still's probe.

What wash did you have in the boiler ?

Oh and welcome to the forum

The wash was made with 21 litres of water, the Still Spirits Classic turbo yeast pack and the hideous black liquid carbon. It was made with 8.5 kilograms of dextrose monohydrate. It was cleared with the turbo clear packets. The boiler was filled to the Max line and took about 75 min to get to temperature.

And thanks for the welcomes. I think I may have hi-jacked this thread.. so if the moderators wish to move it - please accept my apologies.

[Icefever]

Don't worry about hi-jacking the thread the last post was back in 2013...and it's in line with the original Q.
You seem to be ok with your new hobby, you may want to reconsider your decision about a double distill...

[Johns051]

Hi

I am experiencing a similar issue. My mains water is running at about 6 C so adjusting the flow is very delicate and I have to run with an output temp. of between 65 to 70 C to keep the run at any speed, but still getting 93 0/0 AVB

Malcolm

[Aftica]

Hi Malcolm;

I am glad to hear I am not the only one -

I wrote to Still Spirits and did get a response from their Sales Director for
North USA & Canada-

The cold water coupled with the 110V (vs the 220V) heating element does make things harder.

I'm in Oregon which is much warmer but still cold. It can take up to 7 hours for me to do a run. I also let the outlet water temp run high. Up to 72-74C.

It decreases your abv by a couple percentage points. So, you should be getting about 93% but I also end up getting 90%.

The biggest issue is that we can't get a really strong boil with a ton of vapour coming off when using the 110V.

The water flow regulator will definitely help though. Also, putting the hose ends into a bucket in which you add cold water slowly will bring the overall cooling water temperature up as the outlet water mixes back into the bucket of cold water. You'll have to babysit it more but the run will happen faster as well.

Hope that helps.

[Leatherman]

Hi everyone,
I have a quick question. Did strip and spirit runs this weekend. And in manual it says that first drops should come out at 50c temp. I have new t500 with one termometer. Usualy it was starting to drop at 50c. But this time it started to drop at 40c on striping and spirit runs. I used turbo fast 24hours easts with carbon and 6kgs of sugar. Does anyone have a clue why?

[Curmudgeon]

Ethers, methanol and other nasties that we dispose of or certainly don't drink have a lower boiling point than ethanol, which is obviously why they come out first.

I'd say your turbo yeast has produced a particularly impure brew with more stuff with a lower boiling point than usual.