Gervin high alcohol yeast (purple labelled one)

[Phantom]

Ok, so I had a couple of packs of the Gervin high alcohol yeast kicking around, and I thought I'd see what it was like (and fire up a vodka star brew at the same time).

The vodka star finished on time, as usual.

The gervin one (alleged to ferment up to 21% ABV) was added to a normal batch i.e. 6kg of sugar, 21 litres of water. It seemed to start Ok, but after a week I checked it and it had only dropped from about 1.080 to 1.060, so I added a bit more nutrient (guesstimate - not knowing about the "YAN" requirements etc), which has got it down to 1.040 - I checked it yesterday, which was the 1.040 reading, so I just thought f**k it and boiled a 7g pack of co-op bread yeast, but as it was cooling, I also added a teaspoon of DAP (hedging my bets, organic and inorganic nitrogen) and I also added five crushed vitamin B1 tablets to the nutrient/boiled yeast mix.

Once it was cooled enough, I used the electric balloon whisk to aerate/de-gas and mixed in the nutrient(s).

I have no idea why it didn't really start it's ferment properly, possibly not enough nutrient first time round, or maybe it's a pH thing, but I didn't think to check that.

I haven't looked at it tonight (only just got in from work and I'm posting this now as I forgot yesterday), so don't know if it's kicked in or not yet.

Has anyone tried this yeast or know anything about it ?

Any ideas would be much appreciated. I don't really want to dump it, but it's hogging one of my buckets and if it's not gonna finish, I can start another VS batch, which I know will run fine.........

Oh, and it's been at room temp the entire time.

[Capt-Cudellez]

No experience of that yeast Phantom, what nutrients did you use with the original wash?

[Phantom]

Ah, therein lies a problem, I don't remember the exact type or amount. I "think" I rehydrated with GoFerm and slung some fermaidk in.

But can't recall (which could easily be the problem).

There's no sign of obvious issues, like it getting stinky or similar. It's just sitting there laughing at me.......

[Capt-Cudellez]

I think you nailed the problem in your original post - it sounds like every stalled sugar wash I've had problems with lack of nutrients or maybe pH. Bubbles away for a day drops a few points then quits on you (and can be a bugger to restart)

Sounds like you have added a ton of B-vit now I use 5 tabs per 100lts. But I use a lot more boiled yeast (but then again your adding other nutes)

For restarting a stalled wash, I have had success with overwhelming it with a load of bread yeast (say a 1/4 tin of Allison's per 25lt) and it finished slowly, or the other method is to use a wine yeast - take a little of your wash, say 500ml, water it down slightly to lower the gravity (or the ABV if its further along that yours is).
Add a little B-vit (you should be okay with what you have added to the wash) then pitch some fresh yeast - wait 24hours then add this big starter to the wash to get it going again.

Something like k1116, or E1118 will normally do well here.

Let us know how you get on - BTW was the fermenter heated at all? Could you have had a malfunction and its got too hot - only ask as I did that just the other week with a new thermostat, the next day the wash was pushing 40oC and the yeast was dead.

[Jimmy]

I have also done similar by dumping a turbo on top of failed experiments using 'lesser' yeasts, purely as a last resort before chucking them. I also did this with a champagne yeast which worked as well, no idea why.

[Phantom]

Well, I've just checked the gravity again, and it's a fag paper below 1.040 (about the 1.038 area from the looks of it).

I doubt whether the wine yeast suggestion would work, as the Gervin HA is already of that type, albeit one that's supposed to have a very high tolerance (don't know why I bought it in the first place, or what I might have been thinking).

The batch wasn't heated and has obviously fermented part of the way through i.e. about half, so I still don't know whether it's a lack of nutrients thing, or the pH - if honey had been used as the fermentables, pH would have been something to watch, whereas there's even less info about ferments of sugar like we do for "turbo's" etc, so whether Glucono delta-lactone a.k.a. GDL and it's production during the ferment into gluconic acid is a factor, I don't know (haven't had time to break out the pH meter yet).

It would be nice to know what's actually going on, as I'm convinced that using a higher tolerance wine yeast and appropriate amounts of nutrients would be cheaper than using turbo's. As there's quite a difference between the £2.80 cost of a vodka star and the £1.00 or so for a pack of EC-1118 and "a couple of teaspoons of nutrient" of some sort or another.

When I checked the gravity a couple of minutes ago, the airlock water was being held to one side and the bucket lid was slightly bulged, suggesting the presence of slight pressure, and the surface of the wash had some evidence of bubbling, just not the usual tiny bubble burst you see with a very active ferment, so I'm thinking it's still fermenting, albeit rather slowly.......

I'll update as I try stuff.......

p.s. Normally, for meads, I don't like using EC-1118 or other champagne yeast, as they seem to blow too much of the aromatics straight out the airlock. I like to use K1V-1116 or D21 (read about them from a user at other forums and trials have proven them to be good for meads), hence I'm still at a loss as to whether it's better to pay the small (apparent) premium for turbos of whichever brand or to still try and work out a good method for wine (champagne) yeasts and seperate nutrients......

[MrCat]

I've got a packet of alcotec re-start here that is surplus to requirement. PM me your address if you want it and I'll get it in the post on monday.

[Phantom]

I've got a packet of alcotec re-start here that is surplus to requirement. PM me your address if you want it and I'll get it in the post on monday.

Thank you for the kind offer.

I'm thinking it should be Ok. I still haven't got round to breaking out the pH meter yet (getting ear ache from erindoors ATT), but it does seem to be bubbling, about every 3 or 4 minutes, which is more than it's done in the last month or so. I'm guessing it's probably that I didn't add enough nutrient at the start, though the apparent lack of any sign that the yeast was or is getting stressed is rather weird.

Later in when I get a chance I'll check the pH as I'm presuming that it's possible that it's a bit low and the yeasties aren't in the best of moods (like erindoors ATM).

I suspect I'll try this experiment again, but do a better job of working out the nitrogen requirements, and do like I do with meads and stagger the nutrient additions (maybe I measured them wrong and allowed for a 1 gallon batch instead of a 5 gallon batch - if I wasn't so disorganised I'd have noted it down somewhere.......)