plans for a malt mash hand holding needed..

[Fil]

Im a brewer foremost and a total newbie with this sort of thing, i have built a still and run a few sugar washes through it But am balking at brewing a beer for distilation as from what ive read so far i should be fermenting on my grain without a sanitising and reducing boil... just typing it makes me nervous..

So i could use a little hand holding and confirming of what im planning will/should be successful..

i am planning on mashing and fermenting in an unmodified 80l thermopot.
with 30kg of grain divided between a number of batches, simply adding the grain striking at 73C and leaving 24hours before topping up with boiled/cooled water (is tyndilisation overkill?)
and pitching yeast (bakers?so4?)

Im thinking *edit 10-15kg* grain per batch, striking with 30l of water at 73C, topping upto 60l to chill and pitch after 24hours

assuming 10l-15l?? loss due to grain absorbtion i hope to syphon out circa 50l of beer post fermentation, though i expect i will suck out a fair amount of yeast n flour to get away with only 10l loss by inserting the siphon tube into the grain and yeast sediment with a mesh/muslin /voile cover. or should i use a grain bag to encapsulate the grain for removal and suspension draining post fermenting? (oxidisation worries?)

running a stripping run as soon as possible will provide some backset 5l of which i will add to subsiquent mashes as part of the cooling top up prior to pitching.


the grain will be a 5:1 mix of MO:Smoked-barley,

my boiler is a t500 so each batch of beer will be split into 2 to strip and perhaps rejoined and restripped so with the final spirit run the output will be a triple distilled product?

to age/mature, i will probably store in corked glass with charred whiskey barrel stave pencils,
(ebay x whisky barrel staves for £3.50+pnp, plane cut and char with a propane torch yet to buy)
tho i am considering investing in a small white oak barrel with a medium char and treating/sealing it with a bottle of jack danials or wild turkey.


I would appreciate any feedback on the plan, pointing out any glaring errors in my understanding and plan, and suggestions for a yeast.

TIA..

[Easydrinker]

It doesn't sound bad to me,I have only tried something similar once.
It remains the best product that I have ever made.
I used 4Kg grain(heavily peated barley)to 22 lits water(Collected rain water)heated to 68°C held it for a few hours,a couple of hours at 80°C,and then a slow heat up to 100°C.
Let it cool to 25°C and pitched 100g of yeast,some Allinsons and some specially bought in Mauri.
Did that times 6.
SG of around 1.040 -1.045.4 day ferment.
OK,slightly more complicated than that,I did sparge.
I tried bagging the grain,for me a waste of time.
I ended with about 19 litres from each bucket,and didn't wait for it to clear before stripping,but racked it twice,I tried to emulate my understanding of the Islay distilleries methods throughout.
It seems that fast is the way to go,until the aging.
5 months in a demijohn at 63°C with un-charred oak barrel dominoes,magic!
If I can resist it,it can only get better.
Resistance is futile..........
Robert.

Of course the serious here,have their better methods,(and kit),cue AT...

[Almanac]

Fermented on the grain once and decided the hassle and mess wasn't worth it

After that I made simple beer with 6kg malted barley in 25lt strike water and a 10lt sparge when conversion was completed. This left me with 27lt of clean wort filtered through the grain bed. I'd cool the wort with a copper chiller, pitch my yeast, add some amyloglucosadase and close it up to ferment.

Once my ferment was complete I'd rack off to a clean vessel and after letting it settle out for a few days get it stripped

The only time I ever had an infected batch was when trying to work with Flaked Maize to make Corn Liquor....disaster never again.

None of the complications associated in brewing drinkable beer....keep it simples

AM

[Opus 27]

We do very much the same as aidan. We mash the same as our beer minus any hops, sparge through the grain bed and boil. Cool and ferment. Stripping run through pot head, trying spirit runs through pot and reflux to compare the difference in flavours, nose etc.
Storing in jars with oak dominoes for a month then transfering to oak barrel to age.

Opus

[Capt-Cudellez]

As others have said, I wouldn't bother fermenting on the grain if doing an all barley mash. Fermenting on the grain is usually done for high amounts of corn (maize), because its near impossible to sparge, so commercially they ferment and distil it on the grain.

As it sounds like you are going to leave the hot wort for an extended period before pitching (no forced cooling) sterilise the fermenter if it makes you feel better there is an increased risk of infection when doing it this way over crashing the temp and pitching within an hour or so.]
If you don't sterilise, you'll probably be fine too.

[Fil]

as a brewer i can mash sparge and boil without hops very easily and without second guessing too
And would also feel much more comfortable with the beer fermenting after that too as i have fairly good cold side sanitation habits established, my tun while stainless and clean has never been sanitised to date.

Cheers so i will mash short sparge at say 85C and boil to sanitise and perhaps concentrate gravity too ..

thanks for all input

[Capt-Cudellez]

If you boil the wort you will kill off any remaining enzymes which can keep working during fermentation to drop the Sg a few extra points, resulting in a slight loss of alcohol and a sweeter mash - we are talking tiny amounts.

I've never boiled my whisky wort, so can say how if affects the end product. What yeast you going to use? I really like Safale US-05 for all barley.

[Fil]

If i boil i appreciate i will denature the enzymes doing any residual conversion, but plan on adding some Amyloglucosidase 300, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3166
Yeast wise i am undecided, US05 would be easy as i have a few packs in the fridge. would i still ferment warn n fast with US-05 tho or would a sub 20C
ferment like with beer be preferable??

thanks again..


.

[Capt-Cudellez]

Thats where you have to make some decisions- you can ferment really warm in the +30oC and produce some fruity esters that might be interesting - and would lend itself to making a narrow cut (cutting at a higher ABV) - a bit like a lowland malt - or do a cleaner ferment and allow yourself a slightly larger cut - but will take longer to age out as will contain some more tail end stuff.

This is where you decide on your process and it will affect the character of your whisky. good luck. Just give yourself lots of time before you plan on enjoying it - I have some stuff pushing 2years, and its really quite good.

Making gin thats ready in 2 weeks is a skoosh compared to this

[Easydrinker]

Making gin thats ready in 2 weeks is a skoosh compared to this

....Even if you mess up as I did,and have to re-distill !
Malt whisky does seem like hard work,but can be rewarding.
Robert.

[Fil]

More to consider, would a stripping run provide a hint of the fruity flavor from a hot fermentation? if so i may ferment the first batch warmer and let my nose lead the decision on the other batches in this set. final volume is much less crucial than quality and depth of flavor.

[Easydrinker]

Just got to agree with " final volume is much less crucial than quality and depth of flavor."
Don't feel able to advise on the rest of your last post.
Robert.

[Almanac]

....... would a stripping run provide a hint of the fruity flavor from a hot fermentation?

I don't usually taste the product from stripping runs but I have done in the past just to know what it's like and in my experience the bad or unwanted components in the strip prevented my taste buds from determining what the final spirit might taste like. The stripped wash doesn't have the lovely malty aroma or taste of the fermenting wort and tastes like quite poor quality, thin, flat beer.

I don't have the patience to make completely All-Grain ferments and do add sugar to my wash so my opinion on this matter may be different to someone who uses grain only

Tempwise I always keep my Grain ferments between 20-25C - works for me
AM

[Easydrinker]

I hold my hands up!
At some point in this thread I confused fermenting on the grain with all grain washes,sorry for any confusion caused,and for making myself look like a dick-head.
I have fermented on the grain,sweetcorn.
I have done an all grain wash,Barley.
My earlier posts may not be valid to this thread.
I'll be the one in the corner,wearing the cap with 'D'.
Robert.