UK keg boilers - self build

[Myles]

One of the problems for UK builders is that our readily available elements are so big. You can get 2" or 2.25" easily enough but try fitting them to a 50 litre keg.

If you can get a keg welded it is not too bad, but if you wish to do it yourself that means a compression fit flange. Even a 2" Essex is a bit difficult and the next size down element is 1.75" BSP. I still have not found a non-weld flange option in that size.

However, you can fit a 1.5" essex flange quite easily. Add a nipple and a cap and you have the starting point for a DIY element option.

You can get 8 mm bendable element rods easily enough. Add in a pair of 8 mm compression fittings soldered into a 1.5" BSP end cap and you have the basis of a reuseable element system.

When your element burns out you just need to bend a new rod and get 2 of 8 mm olives and you are back in business.

OK the upfront expense is a bit high. About £70 for the keg flange plus all the bits to make an element but compare that to the options.

You can fit a 2" BSP flange but have you seen the price of a 2" element?

You can get 1.75" BSP elements but I have not yet managed to find a 1.75" compression flange. Any of you had any luck?

I even thought about using towel rail elements on a small 30 litre keg but discounted it due to the price.

Any other thoughts on the issue?

[Phantom]

Been thinking about something like this for a while now. As I'd obviously, prefer to use electric instead of an open flame burner.

Thanks to your post I know understand what an "essex flange" is, but I'm struggling to get my head round the rest of your post.

I've been collecting info and bits for a couple of years now, and have a location on most stuff and it's just learning about heating hardware etc.

If you can link some of tbe other stuff I'd happily see what I can find round here...... I'm still undecided as to what type/style of still to actually build as I'm quite happy with my T500 and hence haven't really been in much of a hurry to get a home build sorted.....

[Runningman]

Hi there
You ca get cheap low density elements from the States 1500 up to 4500 watts and fit them into a 1" wekded stub. Hope this helps.
regards
Runningman

[Myles]

Runningman, I know you can bring in 1" elements, but this has always been about trying to find a no-weld option with easily sourced local parts.

Perhaps this diagram will help to explain 1 potential option.

self build element.png (6.28 KiB) Viewed 3533 times

Essex flanges are a relatively easy self fit option. I don't know yet if they do one with a 1.75" BSP internal thread. (That thread only appears to be used on 16" 3 kW elements for uni heat and combi boilers)

However a 1.5" BSP essex flange is a standard item and readily available. As are brass 1.5" BSP nipples and end caps.

The element rods themselves are available in a wide range of power and length from here:
http://www.expresscateringspares.co.uk/3000-Watt-Bendable-Heating-Element-762mm-Long-30-Inches/6770.htm

EDIT: Sorry forgot to insert this:

These are bendable 8 mm rods for which an 8 mm compression fitting could be used to provide a liquid tight seal. Now if you were to drill a 1.5" BSP end cap and fit and solder in place two 8 mm compression fittings you would have a reuseable element boss.

When the element burns out just undo the two 8 mm compression nuts, push the element through and cut off the rod ends and olives. Bend a new rod, insert with 2 new compression olives and you are good to go. Doing it yourself gives you a range of element lengths and power options. The company recommends the use of a mini bending tool to bend the element rods. Readily available for 6/8/10 mm tube.

For comparison here is a source for the 1.75" and industrial 2" elements. Both of these would fit into a welded on flange but be prepared - the 2" elements are expensive.

http://www.milkingmachines.co.uk/uk2shop-11.htm

You can fit the cheaper 2.25" elements to a 100 litre keg, but they are too big for the smaller kegs.

[Phantom]

Cheers for the clarification Myles.

Ha! thinking about this is still doing my head in. My plumbing experience is limited to running an extra length of pipe to plumb in a washing machine or dishwasher, or even using "speedfit" to move a radiator. Anything more than that is over my head right now.

As is, DIY make your own heating elements.........But I'm sort of managing to mentally picture the idea of it using the bendable elements (I think).

I'm sort of imagining that it should be possible too make your own element, bent into a shape that will fit through the hole and be assembled to make the DIY element, then wire it up so it runs through a power controller, so that it can heat the wash/boiler to running temp, then be dialled down to a lower wattage etc.

Just that as I say, my lack of knowledge of this kind of thing is currently outside my balliwick. Now if you wanted a home made microphone switch (hand produced PCB and all) so you can just talk into a mike for your PC to pick it up and run the input through voice transcription software, that's a relative doddle but working with heat/water proof (and unfamiliar) components is "white mans magic" right now.

It'd be a bloody good subject for a tutorial/pictorial though......

I'm off to measure then diameter of my keg, as I reckon that as long as the element is placed in the lower half section and I don't try and run the bugger unless the element is at least an inch below the minimum liquid level, even one of the smaller commercial sized single phase elements should do the job - just the mental image of how it would fix on is lacking (price isn't too much of an issue as I've been stashing the pennies towards something like this for a while now - I'm just not very imaginative ).......

{edit}Just been looking at how Essex flanges are fitted and it's got me wondering how well the seals are likely to stand up to heated sugar wash ? Because it's very different from water, whether its hot or not. Whereas sugar wash is like any other "wine" i.e. acidic and whether any chem substances are likely to or could possibly leach out of the rubber type material into the hot wash, especially if they're likely to cause problems with off flavours in the resulting distillate. Maybe I could find one with seals made from silicone, as that's much more temperature tolerant and seems to be the seal of choice in many devices aimed at home brewing that needs heating in some way ? .........

Right, now off to measure the keg !

[Almanac]

I wrote a reply to post here but when I clicked on "Submit" it just vanished so I'm not going to re-write all the that waffle.

What I was trying to say was that pictures of the components, the assembled parts, and the final assembly fitted to a keg, when you get yours done , would be great for a technical tit like me

What you're proposing would enable huge numbers of small distillers to move to larger boilers and better stills

Cutting edge stuff to be sure

AM

[Phantom]

I wrote a reply to post here but when I clicked on "Submit" it just vanished so I'm not going to re-write all the that waffle.

What I was trying to say was that pictures of the components, the assembled parts, and the final assembly fitted to a keg, when you get yours done , would be great for a technical tit like me

What you're proposing would enable huge numbers of small distillers to move to larger boilers and better stills

Cutting edge stuff to be sure

AM

I've also had similar PEBDAC issues with posting Aidan. Missing posts have often been recovered with a judicious use of the browser "back" button then re-entered

[Almanac]

Go raibh matih agat! (thank you in Irish)

Thankfully the forgetfulness of my advancing years means things like, whatever it was we were talking about, don't annoy me for long anymore

AM

[Myles]

Sorry I should have mentioned this point so thanks for the reminder.

There are THREE different types of washers available for Essex Flanges.

WHITE RUBBER these are usually what comes in the box suitable for water to 60 degrees C
BLACK EPDM suitable up to 90 degrees C

and "SX" washers. These are a cork composite. Suitable to 120 degrees C and approved for Kerosene, Ethylene glycol, Aviation Fuel and Anti Freeze.

Should be more than adequate for use in the boiler, and these are the ones that I use on my 100 litre keg.

[Myles]

OK I have been working out the options on paper.

30 litre keg. This is a great small boiler, perfect for a small packed vodka column in my view, as a run with a full 50 litre keg could take all day. If you just wish to spend a few hours doing a run the smaller boiler is good.

I think there is only 1 real effective option for an immersion element in this size. Fit two 15 mm tank connectors close to the bottom and a drain.

You would need to bend an element rod into a U shape, pass it down through the keg neck and take the ends out the two 15 mm tank connectors. Then use 15 to 8 mm internal reducers to fit an 8 mm compression olive onto the element rod ends. The 15 mm tank connectors will fit in through the tank neck. Same for the drain if you don't go too big.

50 litre keg. My choice for this would be to build an element into a 42 mm section of tube. I would fit a 1.5" Essex flange to the keg and screw a 1.5" male to 42mm compression adaptor into that. Then make my own re-useable element boss in a bit of 42 mm tube.

Its a bit like building a shotgun condenser. You solder a disc into the inside of the tube and solder two 8 mm compression fittings into the disc. (Drill out the end stops so the rod goes straight through) You would need a box spanner to tighten the compression nuts onto the element rod but that is no big deal. Use an end feed cap just silicone'd into place as the guard over the connections. I would put a cable gland in the cap.

EDIT:

self build element2.png (4.36 KiB) Viewed 3481 times

When you need to change element you undo the 42 mm compression and take the boss out of the keg. Undo the two 8 mm nuts, push the rod through and chop off the ends retaining the compression nuts. Bend and fit a new rod, add two new compression olives and tighten the nuts. Presto - element ready to be refitted to the keg.

[Phantom]

Now that's what I call a brilliant post Myles.

Still got some stuff too sort out, but if it gets a keg boiler sorted, especially without having to cut the keg and use dog bowls or whatever, tben damn......

I was given a link over at MD for stainless structured packing to use in a column.......

So the idea at least, is pretty much in place.......I think my keg is 50 litres.

[Myles]

On my own column I have packed it with pumice gravel that I graded to be no more than about 10 mm chips. Not had a chance to run it yet.
If it works OK it is a light weight and cheap option. However I am using a 59" packed length of 3" tube.

I just ordered 5 litres of stainless SPP for a column I am building for someone. Quite expensive though, and I will probably get a 20% tax bill on top of that when it arrives.

However, the advantage is you can get away with a shorter packed length.

[Almanac]

Where are you getting your SPP from as I think I should get some for my VM even though I rarely run it these days

AM

[YHB]

Odin is marketing the Polish stuff through Holland.

http://www.istill.eu/#!products/cb0m

The same page also has bulk supplies (10kG) of Jack Daniel wood blocks.

On my PC the website is very slow to load, be patient

[Myles]

I ordered from Odin.

3" x 36" of SPP with a plug of stainless scrubbers at each end, looks like it may be the standard for a vodka / neutral still in the future. Length for length 1" packed with SPP seems to be the equivalent of 3" packed with scrubbers.

I am trying pumice at the moment(because it is cheap) but might switch to SPP myself.