Some advice sought on Pineau

[MagicH2o]

I am going to make some Pineau using neutral from my Airstill. It would be great to get some input from anyone out there who has done it before or knows of it.
I know as with all Artisanal products there are many different varieties and versions from region to region. I'm going to try Pommeau in the Autumn with local apples as well.
The Pineau that I love and know is made by my good friend and he is based on the edge of the Dordogne and Perigord Vert. As such they use Eau de Vie and unfermented grape juice or must from bergerac or bordeaux.
Obviously getting fresh grape juice unadulterated back here in blighty is not so easy. So I have a coupe of questions that have cropped up before I proceed with my experiment.
1. I have read that you can't use carton grape juice that is pasteurised (as it mostly is) but I cannot find out why? If I were trying to ferment it then I could understand, but as the whole point of adding unfermented grape juice to the spirit is to prevent fermentation taking place and instead it is aged to develop flavours and a finished product of between 18-22%, it does not make sense to me why you could not use carton juice.
2. I have got a red wine kit which consists of grape concentrate and sugar (plus yeast which of course I would not be using) so if I dilute the concentrated grape juice and add the sugar I should be starting with essentially the same stuff that is used in Pineau shouldn't I? Given that the kit is by definition designed to ferment into wine.
Anybody with experience of this care to join in?

[GrunthosTheFlatulent]

The grape juice you find in cartons in the supermarkets is pressed from mostly dessert grapes - the type you would eat. The exception would be Welch's Purple grape juice which mostly comes from the Concord grape, an inferior wine variety.

These grape juices (whether pure pressed or from concentrate) can be used in home winemaking but will yield fairly light bodied wines. They can also be an excellent substitute for water if wanting to boost a cheaper kit wine or if making country wines. Not suitable for your Pineau, especially as there currently seems to be no white grape juice available in the UK unless you pay over the odds in Waitrose.

Pasteurisation only prevents it from going off in the carton and gives the product a longer shelf life, it will not prevent fermentation once opened.

Some “juice drinks” (which are mostly water) may also contain preservatives, so they are best avoided.

The grape juice concentrates or “wine enricher” which you can buy from any decent homebrew shop or online supplier are pressed from wine grapes (the sort you wouldn't want to eat) and have far more ‘oomph’ about them. These would be suitable for your Pineau.

[Mash]

Pineau I have always understood is a fortified wine. Like port.

Pineau I thought was a light, fermented white wine with spirit (presumably brandy or grappa) added. Is there also pine nuts and berries in it?

If this is the case, you need to make white wine (or by some) to which you add a brandy (originating from the air still). Oaked & aged or using essence.

I do a nice port with red wine and brandy.

Having said that, I get the feeling that is not your method judging by your post.

[Easydrinker]

GTF seems to have some knowledge of grape juice here,so I am not going to step on his toes.
I have no knowledge of Pineau,but I used to spend a fair amount of time in Normandy,and so I am familiar with Pommeau. I assume that you are aware this is a mix of Eau de Vie de pommes and apple juice?
Best of luck with your efforts.

Robert.

[wormwood]

I'm no expert on pineau, but isn't a lot of its character due to being barrel aged for several years?

[Mash]

I'm no expert on pineau, but isn't a lot of its character due to being barrel aged for several years?

I thought so.

[MagicH2o]

Yes traditionally it was made and then aged in barrels. But the locals who still make it for themselves year after year make it and bottle to drink the next year. It just about makes it to about 8 months before we start drinking it. I prefer it made that way as it is remains a little sharper in flavour and possibly a little less sweet. I think the commercial varieties are more sherry and liqueur like.
Nothing better on a hot day in France than drinking homemade Pineau over a mountain of ice mmmmmmmmmm!
Thanks for the advice again folks. I am planning a big Pommeau session in the autumn. I've been mapping apple trees in the vicinity on roadsides and hedgerows and will make the spirit and juice all from that and scavenged apples. Can't wait. Now to make a press ready for the apple season.

[Mash]

Freezing apples is the easiest way to release the juice. Then thaw and press.

[Easydrinker]

I think that I have posted here this same subject already, But it is not that long ago that I saw traveling stills, parked by streams of water, distilling individual farms excess cider into Eau de Vie de Pomme in rural Normandy.
A right that now dies out with the farmer.
Progress


Robert.

[chill]

Progress is not all it is cracked up to be...

[Mash]

+1

[Easydrinker]

Progress sometimes sucks.

Robert.