Air still v t500

[shawry99]

Is the 500 worth the extra £300?

Do you need to do something like mozr posted for the air still to get a decent drink?

Does it need a permanent set up, or can I attatch it to my kitchen tap as and when I need it?

Cheers

[The_Angels_Share]

Speaking as a fellow noob, I would say yes it is worth the extra investment.

Primary reason that I will get the 500 is that I don't want to have to upgrade to the 500 later on once I'm totally hooked. If I lose interest,(not bloody likely), I'm sure the 500 will sell on easily enough. Also from what I've been reading it seems a lot less hassle than the air. Still your full wash in one go as opposed to 6 runs on the air. No messing about making cuts between heads, hearts and tail (unless you really want to). Start to finish you'll have 3.5 - 4litres of 93% in less than 5 hours.

As far as I'm aware what comes out once diluted is better tasting than commercial but filtering it either once or twice improves it further. If only filtering 1 batch at a time through the Zfilter, you are as well filtering twice as you can't reuse the carbon once it has dried.

No permanent set-up needed, attach and go.

[Normski]

Hi shawry99

I think you need to wait for an answer from someone who has actually owned both machines.
I have a Smart Still its a great still, but I cannot compare it to a T500 as I have not used one.
Im sure someone with experience will come along soon and answer you question.

[shawry99]

TBH my heads all over the place with it, on face value it seems a really stupid question.

However scanning the forums, it seems waterflow is, or can be, an issue, and Im not sure what else I would need to buy to overcome some of the problems people have encountered.

As things stand, my first wash is a week old now, and still bubbling away, and I only have the stuff I borrowed whilst my friend move house, so I think I will struggle to carry out the method Mozr advises for a pure result.

Im not sure why I thought it would be easy, but it clearly takes more preparation than Ive put in, but having a free loan of equipment sort of forced my hand somewhat, and its from this that my decisions are going to be made, and Im not massively confident that Id be able to make a correct one at the moment.

Ah well, I guess I dont have to rush a decision, see how the air still works, ultimately I may be bad at it anyway

[The_Angels_Share]

Hi shawry99

I think you need to wait for an answer from someone who has actually owned both machines.
I have a Smart Still its a great still, but I cannot compare it to a T500 as I have not used one.
Im sure someone with experience will come along soon and answer you question.

Totally agree here, I just threw my 2p in the ring with my thoughts as I'm in the same place right now. Hopefully someone who has owned both will add to the discussion.

[Normski]

TBH my heads all over the place with it, on face value it seems a really stupid question.

However scanning the forums, it seems waterflow is, or can be, an issue, and Im not sure what else I would need to buy to overcome some of the problems people have encountered.

As things stand, my first wash is a week old now, and still bubbling away, and I only have the stuff I borrowed whilst my friend move house, so I think I will struggle to carry out the method Mozr advises for a pure result.

Im not sure why I thought it would be easy, but it clearly takes more preparation than Ive put in, but having a free loan of equipment sort of forced my hand somewhat, and its from this that my decisions are going to be made, and Im not massively confident that Id be able to make a correct one at the moment.

Ah well, I guess I dont have to rush a decision, see how the air still works, ultimately I may be bad at it anyway

Hi shawry99
If i'm reading this correct - You have a friends Airstill, you have a wash that is nearly ready.
Best thing to do is ask plenty of questions on here. Give as much info about what you have, what you've done, what you are trying to do etc. Makes it so much easier to get an answer. There's plenty of good knowledgeable people on here that Will help you. If i’m right about the borrowed airstill and the nearly ready wash. Then don’t panic. There’s plenty of time for us all to put you right.
Ok let us know exactly what stage you are at. Norm

p.s. No disrespect meant Angel, but you got some more reading homework to do.

[The_Angels_Share]

p.s. No disrespect meant Angel, but you got some more reading homework to do.

Absolutely none taken I know where I'm at and that is maybe 1 day closer to my first sip since I started looking into this a couple weeks ago. Still loads to learn and realise and think about

[Almanac]

The_Angel_Share wrote "No messing about making cuts between heads, hearts and tail (unless you really want to)."

Hold it!! That reads as "you can throw a 25lt wash into a T500 and you can drink everything that comes out the other end in less than 5 hours!" This is a dangerous fallacy. I'm sure that wasn't your intention Angel_Share

Stills like the T500 are entry level reflux stills and yes, you can process a 25lt wash in one go but whether you're using an Airstill, a T500 or an old billy can with a lid and a worm, to distill your spirits you must separate heads and tails from the main body of distillate.

Of course you may decide, with experience, to blend carefully selected portions of the Heads or Tails with the Hearts to achieve a particular result but under no circumstances should anyone blindly consume the product of any still without first removing those elements that can be dangerous and the majority of the other elements that will cause hangovers, trots, etc..

Cuts are NOT made only if you feel like it. Cuts are essential if you want to remain healthy and continue to enjoy this hobby into the future.

As to which is better to start into this hobby with. It may seem to some that the bigger volume of the T500 or similar would be best.

In fact, small equipment, such as the Airstill, is the better choice for the beginner because it allows you to learn, by more frequent use of the still, to master the different cuts, different recipes and different techniques. At the same time you can produce more clean alcohol than you can ever hope to consume - unless you're a complete dipso on two bottles a day!

The T500 is a one trick pony which has a design flaw that requires the user to make mods which will still leave it doing just one thing.

In addition, when trying new recipes the Airstill allows you to try small batches at very low cost and if it doesn't work out you'll have very little loss.

The smaller Airstill also means cock-ups will be small ones and easily corrected. A 25lt cock-up can be a nightmare to deal with. We've all had our cock-ups, our failed recipes, puking stills, flooding columns, discoloured or very smelly distillate and with a still like the T500 each such disaster can be expensive, messy and dangerous.

With the Airstill you learn how to deal with such things, how to correct them and how to avoid them in the future.

I started with an Airstill and after two years graduated to a much bigger self built 50lt Pot and VM Reflux. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that had I started out with a bigger still like the T500 I would not have the knowledge and skills I have learnt in that time and would probably have given up a long time ago bored with the single product the likes of the T500 is limited to producing.

A properly processed 25lt Wash at 12%ABV, double distilled in the Airstill can yield up to 6lt of clean spirit at 40%ABV that you can safely enjoy - that's 8.5 standard spirit bottles and that's just in one week.

Sorry this has been so long winded but safety in consuming what we produce is very important and I believe strongly that, in this hobby, beginners should learn to walk before trying to run. Afterall, we don't make fruit juice here and what we do make could potentially be dangerous if not treated and handled with care and respect.

OK, Soap Box over

AM

[shawry99]

Hi guys,

thanks for the advice, so in essence Aidan, you are saying I would be wise to keep with an air still and double distill (I assume you mean using Mozrs post as a guide?)

I am inclined to agree, probably cos Im feeling slightly overwhelmed as things stand, my plan was just to do the SS way, but no one seems to think that should be done here?

My problem is what do I need to do it properly, bear in mind I currently dont have a container to put my end product in.

I will be filtering in the supplied 2 part little dish with the carbon filter attachment, however I was planning on running the alcohol through that twice.

Could someone give me a list of what additional containers I would need to carry out the Mozr method correctly.

(Please could a mod, put this in the right section, and sorry for asking such stupid questions, Im almost at the stage of hiding away and just doing the SS way because Im taking (or trying to take) in too many things at once, I should of ignored the T500 stuff etc, and just focussed on the Air Still.

Anyway, thanks again for your patience

[The_Angels_Share]

The_Angel_Share wrote "No messing about making cuts between heads, hearts and tail (unless you really want to)."

Hold it!! That reads as "you can throw a 25lt wash into a T500 and you can drink everything that comes out the other end in less than 5 hours!" This is a dangerous fallacy. I'm sure that wasn't your intention Angel_Share

No not at all, I based that on the video on the SS site. I should say I was/am aware that the initial cut is absolutely necessary. What I was more referring to was making further cuts after that to get the best possible result from only drinking hearts.

Cuts are NOT made only if you feel like it. Cuts are essential if you want to remain healthy and continue to enjoy this hobby into the future.

So it's unwise to dilute the 3.5 - 4litres without separating out further ?

As to which is better to start into this hobby with. It may seem to some that the bigger volume of the T500 or similar would be best.

In fact, small equipment, such as the Airstill, is the better choice for the beginner because it allows you to learn, by more frequent use of the still, to master the different cuts, different recipes and different techniques. At the same time you can produce more clean alcohol than you can ever hope to consume - unless you're a complete dipso on two bottles a day!

The T500 is a one trick pony which has a design flaw that requires the user to make mods which will still leave it doing just one thing.

In addition, when trying new recipes the Airstill allows you to try small batches at very low cost and if it doesn't work out you'll have very little loss.

The smaller Airstill also means cock-ups will be small ones and easily corrected. A 25lt cock-up can be a nightmare to deal with. We've all had our cock-ups, our failed recipes, puking stills, flooding columns, discoloured or very smelly distillate and with a still like the T500 each such disaster can be expensive, messy and dangerous.

With the Airstill you learn how to deal with such things, how to correct them and how to avoid them in the future.

I started with an Airstill and after two years graduated to a much bigger self built 50lt Pot and VM Reflux. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that had I started out with a bigger still like the T500 I would not have the knowledge and skills I have learnt in that time and would probably have given up a long time ago bored with the single product the likes of the T500 is limited to producing.

A properly processed 25lt Wash at 12%ABV, double distilled in the Airstill can yield up to 6lt of clean spirit at 40%ABV that you can safely enjoy - that's 8.5 standard spirit bottles and that's just in one week.

Very sound words and have me re-thinking my shopping list.

.....I believe strongly that, in this hobby, beginners should learn to walk before trying to run....

I'm not even at the crawling stage yet lol and have immense amounts of knowledge to consume. So it will more than likely be a few more weeks before I part with my cash

[Admiral Toad]

Wow getting a heavy post this
I agree with AM start with an airstill but please always chuck away the first 50ml or so foreshots the smell should tell you all you need to know
Ditto after about 650 ml collected quality goes down but you can chuck this in the next batch for a second run
The wee filter you get is pretty useless and slow so you can always get a few jars or demijohns to collect a good volume to run through a better filter
T 500 are not all bad they make a very clean spirit but a double distilis better
I'm moving to other stuff now but if you're not mega fussy the old T ain't too bad

[Almanac]

Hi shawry99,

First, forget the 'system' proposed by SS. It will produce alcohol above standard spirit strength which you can dilute to 40% but it will still have a lot of crap in it that you really don't want to drink because it will taste bloody awful. This is because the Airstill is a very simple but inefficient pot still. Having said that, if you double distill with the Airstill you'll produce a very good and palatable spirit.

On the question of whether it's necessary, or not, to double distill I suggest you do one double distillation and when the second run is finished open the Airstill and smell the slops left behind and realise that if you didn't double distill you'd have been drinking that shit!

Collection vessels can be as simple as recycled jam jars or almost any used glass container that was originally for food use.

In double distilling with the Airstill the first run is stripping the wash and you just collect everything until the ABV measures 30% on the alcometer either in a trial jar or a parrot, if you have one, and chuck all the collected spirit into a glass demijon. For a full 25lt wash you'll need up to three demijons to hold the stripped wash.

On the spirit run you'll need several glass containers. I found it helpful to permanently mark the containers for a specific volume and I used a small engraving tool for the purpose and remember, it doesn't have to be fancy!

The first one you'll need is a small glass jar with a capacity of about 100ml but marked for 50ml so you can take off the first 50ml as foreshots with ease.

When running my Airstill I take an arbitrary 250ml as heads so I have a 500ml jar with a mark for 250ml on it which makes it easy for me. (The 250 of Heads goes into another demijon where I store the Heads for use in a future Heads only run.)

For the Hearts I use three jars to collect lots of 250ml and I check the ABV regularly during the run as well as checking taste and smell to detect the start of the Tails. Next I use up to four jars of 250ml capacity to collect 100ml each at a time, again depending on the taste and smell - if I detect tails I stop collecting spirits and let the tails run into a jug until the ABV hits 30% again.

Summary:
1 X 100ml jar marked permanently for 50ml (Foreshots)
1 X 500ml jar marked permanently for 250ml (Heads)
3 X 500ml jars marked permanently for 250ml (Hearts)
4 X 250ml jars marked permanently for 100ml (End of Hearts/Start of Tails)

I used these preserve jars,

but you can use any sturdy glass jars as long as they're clean and undamaged - coffee jars, jam jars, etc.

Mozr's chart is a good visual guide for double distilling with an Airstill and what I've posted above is my adaptation of the same system for running my Airstill.

Ultimately, what you collect will depend on whats in your wash and your own taste.

If I could give you one piece of advice it would be to focus of keeping the best quality product from your Airstill rather than trying to get maximum quantity from each run. That way you'll be keeping the best for yourself and recycling the rest back into your next run so it's not lost, just needs more work.

Hope this helps

AM

[Jimmy]

Another point worth making is that it is ridiculously easy to do a run with an AirStill, setting up a T500 takes time and effort and you spend much more time with it. So, if you're the kind of person who will be able to spend a day doing a still run, T500 is a good bet. If you're rushed for time, having to work it in between other people using the kitchen/washing machine water supply, etc etc then an AirStill is likely to work out much more productive. Horses for courses!

[shawry99]

Hi shawry99,


Summary:
1 X 100ml jar marked permanently for 50ml (Foreshots)
1 X 500ml jar marked permanently for 250ml (Heads)
3 X 500ml jars marked permanently for 250ml (Hearts)
4 X 250ml jars marked permanently for 100ml (End of Hearts/Start of Tails)

Thanks matey

Sorry to go through this yet again

So Stripping tun:

3 x demijons, take everything that the still produces.

Spirit run:

1 X 100ml jar marked permanently for 50ml (Foreshots)
1 X 500ml jar marked permanently for 250ml (Heads)
3 X 500ml jars marked permanently for 250ml (Hearts)
4 X 250ml jars marked permanently for 100ml (End of Hearts/Start of Tails)


Foreshots gets thrown away.

Heads is stored in a 4th demijon for a further spirit run? (you said stripping run) This is the stage that I collect enough to be able to dilute to 30% then run again?

Tails, as soon as you detect Tails, collect in a container down to 30% - this gets run as part of the next stripping run?

Question regarding heads run, does this become an ever decreasing circle, in that I throw away foreshots from it, save heads etc?


I cant thank you guys enough for your patience, I know these questions have been answered time and time again, but for some reason I read them, then read some more stuff, then confuse myself, it will probably be much easier once I get my first wash/distill out of the way

[shawry99]

Another point worth making is that it is ridiculously easy to do a run with an AirStill, setting up a T500 takes time and effort and you spend much more time with it. So, if you're the kind of person who will be able to spend a day doing a still run, T500 is a good bet. If you're rushed for time, having to work it in between other people using the kitchen/washing machine water supply, etc etc then an AirStill is likely to work out much more productive. Horses for courses!

thanks Jimmy,

The Airstill is likely to be my way forward then, as I can run it whilst doing other things, in between work and stuff, I dont often have full days to dedicate to something atm.