Shotgun Condenser plans

[Benoit]

I'm in the process of putting my set up together (pot still) & as space is tight I'd planned on building a shotgun condenser of a reasonable size, that could also follow me through when a slightly larger boiler is wanted at a later date. I've over ordered on 54mm copper pipe & I have both 8 & 10mm soft coil kicking about, the plan was to make it from these up to about 3ft in length.
Reading around there are lots of warnings about using less than 1/2" pipe so I guess before I waste my time, copper & brazing rods...will this be safe? I don't feel safe asking this on HD without getting bombarded with "do some research"
Current set up will be a 25ltr, 2.5kW urn with thumper. Future set up will involve a keg & probably 4-5kW?!

Benoit

[Almanac]

A Shotgun condenser is definitely heavy duty kit and if you need that you should go with 3 X 15mm tubes inside the 54mm water jacket. Building a Shotgun has technical difficulties I couldn't handle with my limited soldering skills, i.e. Too many solder joints all in the one place at the same time

You say a future setup will involve 4 - 5Kw so I assume you have a 3 phase power supply to run it but that amount of power going in to an element won't do anything other than shorten the heat up time.

I currently run a 50 Lt Keg Boiler with a 3Kw element and the only time I use it at full power is during the boil, otherwise I keep it under 2Kw. With this setup I use a 900mm Liebig for stripping, which is run as fast as I can get it to go, and a 600mm Liebig for the spirit runs which are generally run at 1500w producing 3Lt per hour. Either condenser has more than enough capacity to handle the vapour output from my boiler.

Good luck with the build and shout if we can help in any way.

[Anavrin]

Hi Benoit

The cost and time involved making a shot gun with 5 or so 10mm tubes inside, plus an inlet and outlet for the cooling is quite high, I would suggest making a cheap and cheerfull 3ft long liebig, mine is a 15mm inner with a 28mm outer and is about 3ft long, it can easily handle 3kw, I fact Im thinking of shortening it to about 2ft as it over cools my product.

Even if you build a keg with a couple of 2.5kw elements, you won't need anywhere near that much power once it's up to temperature.

Just an idea that's cost effective enough to try and if your not happy with it you haven't invested too much time or money in it.


Aidan, you beat me to it while I was replying :-)

[Benoit]

Thank you both for your input, I'm a heating engineer so most of the pipe I've got kicking about & the 54mm I bought too much of in the first place so it's only the reducers for the ends that will cost really but jtm plumbing has them at about £3 each. I'm on this project with a friend who can tig weld like a beast & I'm a dab hand with the solder so if you think that there won't be any issues with pressure caused by the smaller pipe then I think I will make this.
Doing some more research I think it only needs to be 2ft long to condense what I need & I'm confident if you braze the smaller tubes to a plate, then soldering everything else it won't cause an issue. Swap from mapp gas to normal propane & the braze won't get hot enough to melt but the solder will...in theory! I've only ever done one of the other in my short career so far!
If the shit really hits the fan then my mate will have to weld the small pipe to the plate, there's no way in hell propane will melt that! Thanks again

Benoit

[Mash]

Am I right in thinking a 2ft shotgun with 3 elements will give moral less same effect as a 6ft Liebig? Is it that linear?

[Anavrin]

Heres the StillDragon page of Dephlagmators and Product Condensers (shotguns) they, in 2" they use 3 x 16mm pipes for the Dephlagmators or 7 x 10mm pipes in the product condensors.

https://www.stilldragon.eu/en/21-condensers

I asked a question on the SD forum if you could used their big baby Deflag with the 3 x 16mm holes as a product Condensor, the condensor has 7 x 10mm holes and is a little longer, in the end it seems nobody had tried it but my maths suggested it could work,

Here's what I wrote on one post about the cooling potential of the Deflag

Maybe, but according to my "back of a fag packet" maths trying to calculate the surface area of the inner pipes, the 7 x 10mm tubes at 202mm long in the PC and the 3 x 16mm tubes at 149mm long in the dephlag.

The dephlag has 80% of the cooling surface area the PC but has a 9% wider opening, the total area of the 3 x 16mm holes is 9% wider than the total area of the 7 x 10mm holes.

In the end I give up trying it, not because I didn't think it would work, but because of the additional expense of replacing my entire leibig/product collector with expensive stainless bits

[Benoit]

And Sod's law prevails again, hours spent researching in forums & the answer was there in an online shop all along! 7 x 10mm pipes it is!

And my god those things are expensive in stainless!

Benoit

[Anavrin]

If your going to make one, I would suggest a design improvement would be to have the inlet and outlet at the extreme ends of the outer tube, if possible angle the top one upward to avoid air getting trapped at the top of the shotgun.

[Almanac]

Am I right in thinking a 2ft shotgun with 3 elements will give moral less same effect as a 6ft Liebig? Is it that linear?

Possibly, but would you ever need that amount of condensing capacity in a home distilling setup?

My 900mm Liebig can handle everything my 50 Lt boiler and 3Kw element can throw at it.

6ft Liebig What a monster!

I also run a 2" Big Baby Dephlegmator and that can knock everything down during a Spirit Run where the power is limited to 1500w during the run.

[Mash]

Never built one. Just trying to understand the maths.

4-5kw and 6ft (2ft shotgun) = about 150 - 200l boiler then.

[Benoit]

Never built one. Just trying to understand the maths.

4-5kw and 6ft (2ft shotgun) = about 150 - 200l boiler then.

Hmmm that's some boiler! I don't plan on going up that far at all, 50ltr max so that means I can cut back on the length of this quite considerably....maybe even make 2 & flog one on eBay to pay for the first one?!

Benoit

[Anavrin]

I also run a 2" Big Baby Dephlegmator and that can knock everything down during a Spirit Run where the power is limited to 1500w during the run.

Hi AidanMac

I found 1500w was about as high as I can run my 2.5" Baby Crystal Dragon (now with 6 plates) and when I have a packed section above the plates, anymore and the packed section floods, I know you have a bigger setup with 4" plates an no packed section but just have a question, Do you find 1500w is good for a spirit run using just the plates, dephlagmator and an open takeoff!

I have some rum strip I need to run, never made a non neutral spirit yet and want to get it right, I'm planning on just running it with 1500w, CM control and going for about 1.5 lt/hr, I've no idea where I'll find the hearts, I'm guessing somewhere between 80%~60% reading on the parrot

[Mash]

Never built one. Just trying to understand the maths.

4-5kw and 6ft (2ft shotgun) = about 150 - 200l boiler then.

Hmmm that's some boiler! I don't plan on going up that far at all, 50ltr max so that means I can cut back on the length of this quite considerably....maybe even make 2 & flog one on eBay to pay for the first one?!

Benoit

I think perhaps a 2ft liebig would do it. Can't see the need for the extra cores of the shotgun. And a liebig would be a quick and easy build for a first one. All soldered and standard fittings.

Just my 2p worth

[Almanac]

I found 1500w was about as high as I can run my 2.5" Baby Crystal Dragon (now with 6 plates) and when I have a packed section above the plates, anymore and the packed section floods, I know you have a bigger setup with 4" plates an no packed section but just have a question, Do you find 1500w is good for a spirit run using just the plates, dephlagmator and an open takeoff!

I have some rum strip I need to run, never made a non neutral spirit yet and want to get it right, I'm planning on just running it with 1500w, CM control and going for about 1.5 lt/hr, I've no idea where I'll find the hearts, I'm guessing somewhere between 80%~60% reading on the parrot

I've found when running low wines at 30%, that at 1500w the output from the boiler is the max the Big Baby Dephlegmator can handle on it's own even with max coolant flow. Beyond that the product condenser will start to drip.

I've never had a flooding problem with my 4" plates probably because I only use the hybrid for spirit runs.

Finding the Heart on any spirit run is more down to taste and smell but this should only be done after the distillate has been aired for a couple of days. The purpose of collecting in small batches is to allow you decide on cuts later. I'd never decide cuts by a parrot reading or temperature or anything else

[googe]

I've always done 4x 1/2" inner tubes in 2", 450~500mm long, more than enough knockdown power. I've done 6 foot liebig and its great for fast spirit runs but sort of struggles with fast strip runs. The shotgun isn't as good as.the big liebigfor fast spirit runs but good for fast strips, its a better all over combo IMO.