Welcome to the forums!

[inspector gadget]

Welcome. Don't listen to the brew shop advice. Follow the advice here, drink safely. And better!

Allready noted and thanks... hows the weather there?

Gadge

[Icefever]

It seems that most of the HBS guys that sell these stills don't know the full facts about how to work with them..
I had the same information when I bought my airstill years back...I followed what the guy told me and finished up drinking nail polish

Now I know a lot more about this hobby....and I'm making far better.

[chill]

The weather is fine so far, Inspector. It is mostly sunny this weekend and around 15C. However, soon the winter rains will set in and I will forget what the sun looks like.

I don't blame the HBS owners, it is just a small part of their business and there is much to learn in all aspects of it.

Chuck

[Easydrinker]

Gadge,
Welcome,and yes the information in the Smart still/air still forum should sort you with a decent drink.
We all learn to do it a way that suits us, but I have to say the part of your post above which shouted at me was an 8Kg sugar wash. Yes, for sure you will get a decent drink from it, if you follow the practices talked of here, and not the advice given in brew shops.
Do yourself a favour and cut back on the sugar,try 5 or 6 kilos to 25 litres.
See if you find an improvement in taste, you should.

Some users here are happy to stick with Turbos, some try other neutral washes, the only important thing here is that you get something that works for you.
It is an experimental learning curve.
Have fun.

Robert.

[Mash]

Good spot Robert.

8 kilos might never get anything except old, if you wait for that to finish ☺

[inspector gadget]

Good spot Robert.

8 kilos might never get anything except old, if you wait for that to finish ☺

It did finish but took nearly 10 days not seven and everything produced has been consumed (except for a 'sambuca' for a friend... so yes next wash will be a 5 kg affair.

thanks Robert n Mashy...

[Phantom]

Thanks for the welcome guys, yes I have had a Megahome airstill for a while now and recently finished my first wash and am pleasantly surprised with the results. Needing to find out more I did some searching and am glad I found the airstill guide pdf, will be putting that to good use over the coming weeks. Wash was a turbo48 8kg mix and the technique i was using was to throw the first 50ml then keep 750ml and bin the remainder of the wash, A visit to a brewshop threw me a bit when the guy said no... keep the first 800ml then save the next 350ml and add to the next batch of wash and so on... time to delve a bit more and here I am... hopefully able to input as well as output IYKWIM...

regards and I'll update my profile as soon as I can...

Gadget..

The dump the foreshots (first 25-50 mls) technique is good/correct, as that's where any methanol produced by the ferment (all ferments produce some - but that's enough of a safety margin) will appear and come out.

The then collect the next 800 mls is the basic method suggested by the still makers for a nice, easy, straight forward method that anyone can follow - but it is a bit wasteful. There is still some alcohol left in the rest that you'd routinely dump.

Part of your learning will be about "making cuts". While that's not so necessary for sugar wash, as the sugar is already refined before use and while any alcohol taken after the initial 800 mls won't have much of a different flavour, it's a waste just to flush it.

I routinely just start my smart still, remove the foreshots (into the screenwash bottle of my car) and then let it run until it's distilled out about 2 litres - I then put that into a container of some sort. I do that to all of the batch of 25 litres of wash.

Once it's all been through once, then I measure it and make sure it's less than 40% ABV (if it's higher, then I water it down with reverse osmosis water from the local aquarium shop - as locally water is very hard), then re-distill it. You get about 80% or so ABV. I don't have to bother dumping foreshots as you will have already removed any methanol the first time (all fermentation will produce small amounts of methanol but it boils lower than ethanol, hence dumping the foreshots as that's where any will be).

Then I take the 800mls, but I leave the still running and anything that comes out later, right down to between 20 and 10% will go back into the rest that's waiting to be distilled a second time.

I let the distillate down with RO water as above, but to as close to exactly 40% ABV as I can (that's the regular drinking strength and the level that any flavouring essences you might use will taste correct at)

I always carbon filter (I have an older style "Z" filter but anything you can use should help remove any possible off notes in the distillate). The carbon filter does a better job at a lower strength - though you can filter at high strength if you want, just that you'd end up changing the carbon more often..........

[chill]

Phantom,

You are incorrect regarding methanol in the foreshots. For details see my post viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3625&p=27524&hilit=methanol+ethanol+azeotrope#p27524

And I note that your method leaves you drinking heads, I think we have discussed this before. Each to his own, but I can't consider that a best practice -- either in taste or resulting head pain.

Chuck

[Easydrinker]

Yea,
Without wishing to make P feel that we are ganging up, I read his post a couple of times and don't see a mention of removing heads.
Now, I have my own Idiosyncrasies, some of which may have old hands throwing them up in despair, but I don't drink heads, maybe P forgot to include a line or two?

Maybe he seeks his own version of a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster, considered to be the "Best Drink in Existence". Its effects are similar to "having your brains smashed in by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick".

What do I know?

Robert.

[Phantom]

No and deliberately so. The basic stillsmart system doesn't. Yes, if I was making something other than sugar turbo, heads would indeed be separated off, but with a well made sugar turbo (and carbon filtration) doesn't make much difference.

It's the "entry-level" method that produces a reasonable, drinkable spirit.

Inspector Gadget is starting out. So, (IMO) a half decent early result is beneficial.

Oh and the boiling point of methanol, being lower than ethanol, will separate it out mostly in the foreshots. If you read up on it, the worst stuff to produce in respect of naturally occurring methanol from fermentation (for drinking spirit) would be stone fruit, like plums (think slivovic)........

Once he has a few batches under his belt, or if when he wants to follow Aidans guide then that (again IMO) is the time to introduce cuts.

We are already "all about" but the K.I.S.S. technique is excellent for newer starters.......

[Easydrinker]

Not wishing to pick a fight here Phantom, but I have to disagree.
It is not just a little, if any, methanol that I wish to to remove from the take off from my still, before consumption.
Even for simple sugar washes.
There are a whole host of higher alcohols in there, which smell and taste like shit.
They won't kill you, maybe just cause a headache, but carbon filtering does not make them better, the best it does is give them more time to dissipate.
I always felt that I was the rebel here, I have dafter ideas than most, but today I am feeling like some boring old moderate.
I have reread your posts above several times, trying to find something that I missed, but even with your second distillation, I don't believe that you are obtaining the best product that you can, unless you cut out some Heads.
But, hey ho, we all walk a different path.

Robert.

[chill]

I have to agree with Robert. We are all free to make and drink what we want. But... if you (Phantom) think there are no heads in a sugar wash, all I can say is to make cuts and see what you get. On an average sugar based wash (turbo, lentil, whatever, I see little difference in this aspect), the first 500ml is contaminated by heads. And I toss 50ml as fores before that from a spirit run. The heads have a definite artificial flavouring taste aspect and burn the tongue rather than the throat. That is ethyl acetate, mostly. And yes, that IS present in a lot of commercial products (Wild Turkey Bourbon is a good example and I can no longer tolerate it due to the heads taste). Carbon filtering does not clean this up.

If you are running an Airstill, keep the heads and re-run them. Again the first 500ml or so will be contaminated, but after that you will recover good alcohol.
Chuck

[Phantom]

Yes and yes........

But I seem to be reading "points missed" here.......

There are many (was we understand/know) ways to perfection. My main point (albeit poorly conveyed) is that doing a sugar wash as a "system" makes it easy for the new maker. Not best practice I know, but to get acceptable results and success, means that the new maker is pleased as they have demonstrated to themselves that it isn't or doesn't need to be prohibitively complicated.

The finer points of improving what you've learned is further down the line.

After all, you can't expect to achieve perfection on the first attempt.......

[inspector gadget]

I have to agree and cant make you wrong, now onwards and upwards as they say, have a great day...

Gadge

[Phantom]

I have to agree and cant make you wrong, now onwards and upwards as they say, have a great day...

Gadge

Well done IG. Keep at it, you've discovered one of life's mysteries (well in the UK anyway).........

You've only to search for the official numbers to learn just how much they're stiffing us by.........