Golden & Treacle Syrup....

[Icefever]

Home made that is...we've have a number of posts over the last few years about the above.

Where's the best place with the best price??...now I've made Belgium candy sugar in the past as it's in a lot of Belgium brews.




This morning I set too and made a jar of dark syrup...for the cost of 600 grams of sugar and a dash of lemon I have a large jar on par with the tins we buy.



To do a 5kg bag of sugar would be no harder than a small quantity...in fact I think it maybe easier with a larger amount to keep the temp steady.

[Easydrinker]

OK Mate,
I think that what you may be making is caramel?
Golden syrup is, I believe a by product of Cane sugar distillation?
If your product fulfills all the roles of GS then I will tip my hat,I don't see how it can, as you are starting with refined sugar, what do I know?
Now, if You found the alchemist's secret, then I applaud you.
Do enlighten us.

ATB
Robert.

[Icefever]

Robert you've got me thinking, nay doubting everything now. Since reading Ian Smiley book the part on fermenting and all the questions that threw up. Is anything we read or told by these so called "experts", what we view on the net safe to follow??

The original old adage of “A little learning is a dangerous thing.” may apply on all I think & know, even here on this subject of golden syrup.

As I said I make Belgium candy for the odd brew, is that what I think it is??
as I understand white sugar is quote ...

"Sucrose is actually two simpler sugars stuck together: fructose and glucose. In recipes, a little bit of acid (for example, some lemon juice or cream of tartar) will cause sucrose to break down into these two components".


By inverting white sugar we get the above, which I've always thought was an easier route for the yeast to take as they don't have to do the work.

The following is further info I've gleaned from the internet...

Golden syrup or light treacle is a thick, amber-coloured form of inverted sugar syrup made in the process of refining sugar cane or sugar beet juice into sugar, or by treatment of a sugar solution with acid.

An equivalent golden syrup product may be made from beet sugar by processing the clarified, partially evaporated beet juice to break down (invert) most of the disaccharide sucrose into its constituents monosaccharides glucose and fructose. In this process none of the sucrose is ever crystallized from the beet juice. Inversion may be done by acid hydrolysis or by adding an enzyme, invertase.

Along with videos like these....here......and here

We are always looking at keeping the cost of the base ingredient for our hobby at it's lowest we can find...the Cachaca thread on here has a lot of interest & following, this includes myself. With the base for Cachaca being Golden syrup as the closest we can get to cane syrup.

With this in mind it seemed logical if I can make the stuff....why not. The cost of 600 grs sugar @ 0.54p per Kg plus a bit of leccy and my time (free ) must be worth it??.
What I did yesterday was darker than I wanted, the reason was I let it climb too high, it went to 120c...it should hold at 110/115c...I took my eye off it for a min.... and yes it tastes just like the dark treacle we have in the cupboard..

Now this raises the question, is what I'm making Golden syrup??? is there a sugar technician anywhere out there?? HELP..

[Mash]

I have always understood "making a syrup" in sweetmaking/cooking to be boiling down some sugar.

I did it yesterday for the Turkish delight.

Now I have had to think about it.

So for me, the question is when is a syrup a caramel? Is it a point of burning.. Maillard level perhaps.

I feel some research coming on.

[Icefever]

Now I'm more confused Mash.. what are you trying to do to me.

Is it a point of burning.. Maillard level perhaps.
I feel some research coming on.

The "colour" that you want is (as far as I've understood until now) the time you have the syrup on the heat..(burn)..take it off and that's what you will finish up with.
I found this here by British Sugar a sort of simplistic flow chart....so is white sugar by inversion Golden syrup??? fecked if I know mate.

[Mash]

I have been busy this morning. In between getting a run on and ccstv I have been having a read up and my vote is YES until I can find a content which contradicts that view.

Interesting tubey...
https://youtu.be/ksIHlV9T17U

Good way to control your colour (which imo is also a flavour component)

[Icefever]

10-Rog matey...that's one of the links I added to my post....watch this space, I've emailed Tate & Lyle asking them what the difference is....lets see if they spill the beans..

[Icefever]

I'm amazed that Tate & Lyle replied with the following...The first paragraph is the advert...but the 2nd as made me think that maybe we're not that far off.


Dear Mr Jones,
Thank you for your email.
How is Lyle's Golden Syrup made?

Lyle's Golden Syrup remains unchanged since 1883 and is still made the same way it was all those years ago. The secret to Lyle's is the perfect blend of sugar molecules, which are continually refined throughout the process. This ensures that the highest quality sweet glistening syrup still a favourite today.

For those of you who like the geeky bit… the sucrose molecule splits in half to give glucose and fructose sugars. This inverted syrup is blended back with the original syrup to give a partially inverted syrup. The secret of Lyle's Golden Syrup is the final blend of sucrose, glucose and fructose, which allows the syrup to be so thick and velvety without crystallizing.


Kind regards


Diane
Tate and Lyle customer care advisor

[Easydrinker]

That is kind of BIG news, I think.
It seems to imply that with a little effort, we can all make GS.
It is late and my brain is fuddled.
I'll look in the morning and see if I have this wrong.

Robert.

[Mash]

Quite disappointing to get standard bull.

But I do think it supports our theory.

[Icefever]

Well we know now that they invert sugar...which I think we agree is glucose & fructose, then they admit they add that back to the sucrose to make golden syrup. A little more digging is called for me thinks.

[Mash]

Well we know now that they invert sugar...

Didn't we knwo that anyway? - thats what the lemon/citric is for.

[Icefever]

It's hard to find a smiley for the first part of that post. I was trying to be a little sarcastic....that they tell us that they do indeed invert the sugar. didn't work...memo to myself don't try that again.

The interesting part was...I think...that they say golden syrup is a mix of 3 types of sugar. Now my next question is... if you got hold of sucrose to add to the Inverted sugar that one can make....do we have golden syrup

What's the cost of sucrose??? Is it worth the time??

[chill]

If you are starting with white refined sugar, cane or otherwise, I don't see how inverting or caramelizing is going to result in Rum or Cachaca. There is just not going to be any flavour in it.

[Mash]

That's the scorching (Maillard) bit surely