spiral-prismatic packing

[Almanac]

Hey Guys, anything new on SPP

AM

[Capt-Cudellez]

yes - just from yesterday I posted this else where was going to post here to, excuse the copy and paste for now.....
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Well I got my SPP today - the seller didn't ship and there was communication issues, so he had my money for 2 months before I finally got it sorted out and he shipped 7 days ago - so not a bad transit time to the UK, but it was a painful process up until that point.

So did a cleaning run this evening with some junk-a-hol - not a lot of alcohol in the boiler it was probably about 15% ABV- and was having a bit of a play since it was just for cleaning - but had some observations to think about. I was also running with a BB under the column.
First of all I only have a single coil reflux condenser - so its packed with scrubbers to help knock down running on a higher power - also I have a couple of scrubbers packed in above the take off to act as a "choke" to push more vapour down the take off.

I found when running on 2500w worked fine for me - I followed some of the tips from the polish guys, and packed down the SPP a little at a time with a wooden cane, also the SPP was held tightly packed at each end to stop it loosing off

If I maxed out the element - 2900W I would get flooding at the top of the column at the reflux coil - wondering if upgrading the coil and removing all the scrubbers would let me run at this higher rate? worth a try.

When running at 2500w - I opened it up running way too fast at 4l/h it destabilised the column temp but was still pulling 96% - I found dialling it back down to around 3.5l/h the column stabilised and the temps were where they would be on a normal run. At this take off rate I looked to be pulling 96.5% at 21.5oC.

So a few things for me to play about with – but I now don’t see the need the need to do a strip with my pot head – with those sort of speeds I could make cuts on the first\strip run –then re-run the hearts from a couple of runs at a slower pace with increased reflux for really pure product, in a comparable time to doing my 2x strips and a single spirit run.

At the end of the day, its going to be down to the quality of what is produced at these higher speeds - I know when running my standard column config, if I ran at 2l/h the product was still 95%+ but was not as smooth as running at 1.5l/h - so for me this will be the deciding factor in how I end up running - still exciting stuff though.


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Okay so I've scribbled down some rough numbers - previously on my VM I liked the product when running 1450w @ 1.5l/h - which I think is about a 20% take off with 80% returning as reflux.

With 2500w @ 3.5l/h, that's a 27% take off with 73% returning - comparable to running @ 2l/h with 1450w which I found a bit "hot" in taste.
So it looks like 2.6l/h @ 2500w will give me the same ratio as what I was happy with before.

That said -If I'm pulling 95%+ on the first run then the second will have less volume of the "other" components that are normally in the spirit run- so maybe just have to wait and see how that pans out in practice.


Also all of the above was just a cleaning run - I want to see what happens over the course of a full run with wash.

[Capt-Cudellez]

I still have some playing to do, but I think I can do 2 quick runs with wash taking an hour each time to cut the heads, then run out the rest @ 3.5l/h pulling 95%+

Then take the hearts from these 2 runs, and run it again at 2.6l/h in about 2 hours less than my old 2 x strip and single spirit run where I was getting 1.2-1.5l/h.

If it works out that way in reality then I'll be getting 3" take off rates in a 2" package.

[Almanac]

Thanks for the update CC. I'm not going to complete my VM column for a while because, as you pointed out, I'm a whiskey man so my main need is for a good pot still first.

Having said that I'm very interested in SPP because, while I love the idea of having copper in my column, having the entire column packed with copper mesh only presents some difficulties that SPPs may overcome for me.

Am I going to need an interpreter to deal with the Polish guy or has he got one on hand over there?

Anyway, overall a good result, yes?

AM

[Capt-Cudellez]

I've only done the cleaning run - I'd like to get a few under my belt before making any firm predictions - it looks to be working very well for me - but another distiller over on AD is having flooding issues and is having to put in LESS power.

This stuff will let you run on lower power with a smaller column and get big column results - I'm not interested in running a short column when I have the head space - so I'm wanting to wring as much out of the equipment I have - I'm hopeful - but I cant say I've heard of anyone pulling 3+ litres out a 2" column with any success, so I'm hesitant.
I think the bubble plate under the column really adds a level of stability too, I got 2.4l/h without the SPP before flooding.

His English is as good as my polish - nada - I'd be reluctant to recommend him with the issues I've had - there is another polish supplier - let me dig out the details and I'll post it up.

[YHB]

With such a drastic difference in results betrween you and the other guy from HD it begs a daft question - did you both get the same type of SPP from the same supplier? - maybe the other guy's SPP is a lot denser / Smaller ?

[Capt-Cudellez]

Same supplier, same dimensions - I have an inkling that it just needs repacked - I had sizzling (noise) issues with my T500 a few times, a good shake or repacking the column would correct it.

I packed a little at a time, packing it down each time, a little shake - all very familiar to those using ceramic saddles for packing - then I jammed it tightly in place.

My column is in 2 sections for packing away - his is a single piece - I'll wager mine is easier to handle/ pack with this stuff.

but who knows.......

[YHB]

Now for the important bit - column hieght?

Do you intend trying the SPP with your stubby column set up?

[Capt-Cudellez]

My column is 40" to the take off - I have an inch at the bottom unpacked - in the middle I have a scrubber each side of the join to hold the spp in place - and I have about 3" of copper foil under the take off - so in total there is probably about 34-35" packed with SPP.

Yes, I'll run the stubby like that - as its just the top half of the column, it will have around 11-12" packed with SPP in it.

[YHB]

I will keep my fingers crossed, maybe I will not have to cut a hole in the shed roof after all.

[Capt-Cudellez]

I've been speaking to the other guy - he packed a 2" with 48" of SPP - that's alot more than mine also has a gap 2/3rd the way up that may or may not make a difference.

48" is about 24 theoretical plates that's a lot, also he'll be holding a hell of a lot of liquid in that packing.

He is also looking to break the still down into smaller bits - for running white rum, like my stumpy still - so we'll see if he gets a better result with that.

[Capt-Cudellez]

A bit more info on sellers - due to the problems I have had with the guy who shipped mine - I can't really recommend him to anyone. However this guy is very knowledgeable - a French bloke now living in Vietnam, he is an excellent still maker, and promp shipper.

Air freight from Nam is comparable with the express option from Poland.
http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=430&start=15

[YHB]

Working with the figures that Manu gives a 1m column needs 2 litres of SPP at 1.4 kgs per m using 0.25mm wire. The best price I can see for stainless steel wire is 11 pounds plus VAT for half a kilo.

So just to buy the wire I would be looking at 1.4 x 2 x 11 x 1.2 = 36 pounds a litre. It’s not worth thinking about making it.

I will keep looking for cheaper wire, I may stumble on a bargain.

[billmcc]

Hi Brian £19.25 for 1kg of 0.23 copper wire @wires.co.uk if you buy 2x 500grm reels.I'm just awaiting a reply from the fellow the captain mentioned for total price with shipping
cheers

[YHB]

Thanks for the input Bill, It still works out at 65-70 pounds including VAT, I am still looking at Stainless for my packing I do not want that much copper in my column.

I am looking forward to seeing your all up quote from Manu.

In the mean time here is another variation on the theme "mesh dixon rings" I have not see any discussions on these I stumbled on them when I was looking for wire.


http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/355877164/Metal_Mesh_Dixon_Rings.html

The specification claims that the 4mm version will give 30-40 theoretical plates per m and the 3mm 40-50 ( Capt'n do you reckon that I am reading their chart correctly.)

If you believe the prices then 1 cubic meter will cost 1000-2000 USD that works out at 2 USD per liter. I think there is something wrong with my calculations or their adverts - I will give them a call tomorrow, check it out and let you know.

Update - they would not quote over the phone - I had to send a formal Request For Quotation, which I have done.