tpw questions.

[phildebeast]

Evening folks.
My wonderful partner bought me an air still for chrimble. I am a previous beer brewer so understand the principles of brewing but distilling is a whole new ball game to me.
I've come across the tpw but have too many unanswered questions.
Strips runs- what are they and are they needed?
Cuts-do I need to make cuts if so when and best practice, I know you don't using the turbo method. I've heard first 50ml,100ml, 20ml. Is it down to preference?
Finally filtration-needed? Best practice. My still came with the cargo filter.

Anything else I may need to know about producing my own neutral using tp. I've searched various forums but can't find definitive answers to my queries.

Cheers guys and I hope you all had a merry chrimble.
Phil.

[vino-tinto]

Welcome to the forum phildebeast. The best thing to do first is to look at the best practice PDF guide.

http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1216

From there ask any questions you are not sure of.

Strips runs- what are they and are they needed? Doing strip runs & spirits run leaves a purer end product.

Cuts-do I need to make cuts if so when? Cuts are made to spirit runs as the PDF will show.

Finally filtration-needed? If you want a pure neutral spirit a carbon filtration is best.

[Phantom]

Welcome to the forums........

TPW is one way, there's other slightly different recipes that do a similar/same result. That includes straight sugar and turbo yeast (StillSpirits triple is good, but I prefer Vodka Star).

It (the air still) does a good basic job, but on a single run, you wouldn't achieve more than about 60% ABV. If you let the spirit down to less than 40% (a safety measure) with distilled or RO water (tap water if you're in a soft water area - hard water gives the spirit a harsh flavour, hence using distilled or RO water - RO is cheapest) then re-distill, you'd get 80 or so %ABV.

Stripping runs are used when the still is a basic alembic type (think of scotch distillers and the big "swan necked" type stills). You're stripping out some of the water from the fermented wash/mash. Actually, if you wanted to get the 80% I said about above, the first run could be considered a strip run......

Cuts ? Generally used on flavoured spirits like whisky, brandy, etc...... You could try making cuts (lots of small jars, marked with numbers, so you know how far through the run you took each one etc) but with neutral/vodka, if you're carbon filtering most, if not all of any off flavour is removed anyway. You wouldn't routinely carbon filter the distillate from a whisky/brandy as you'd want to retain that flavour........

Methanol/foreshots removal ? I do 25mls per 4 litre still charge. It takes mine an hour to heat up, so I just put a measuring tube under the outlet and set a timer. Then I just wait till it's measuring the 25ml and then change to the main collector. All ferments make a little methanol, but using pure, pre-refined ingredients like sugar means it's virtually nothing. I save the foreshots for my car screen wash bottle.

I carbon filter routinely. My still is what, 5? 6? years old at least. So my distillate runs through a plastic holder that contains a "carbon teabag", but I also run the finished spirit through a "Z" filter (the lower the strength the longer the carbon is good for, the better the efficiency of the carbon filter).

To get you started, I'd say to do a "system" wash i.e. sugar and a decent turbo yeast. Follow the instructions and you get a baseline/benchmark.

It's all pretty straightforward, that doesn't mean there's not a lot too learn. Have a search as Aidanmac wrote a nice guide to work and manage the air still.......

[phildebeast]

Thanks for the replies guys. That pdf certainly shines some light on the process and has made its way to my desktop.
My still came with the bits to do a turbo wash with the liquid carbon and finings. It's seems like alot of extras to add to secure a clean neutral hence my interest in the tpw.
I'll be adding esscences to the distilled alcohol, I enjoy a brandy so I'll be looking forward to sampling the product.

[Mash]

Don't get hung up on the TPW. There are many non turbo recipes... lentils, wheat, kale, birdwatchers to name just a few. All recipes for washes (basic wines to be distilled).

Find one you like. You are aiming for it to be as nuetral as possible. You might prefer a turbo, many do.

The techniques of stripping, spirit run, cuts, filtering etc are best practice for running a still regardless of the wash.

If you get 25 litres of something going. Run the batches differently and you will see (& taste) the differences.
Ps. Get an alcohol refractometer from eBay £15. Will help no end. Easiest thing in the world to use and it won't roll off the bench

[chill]

I will offer some alternative opinions to Phantom's / variations on his advice.

Stripping runs are mostly to strip out the excess water, and some of the off flavours. Then when do you a careful run and make cuts, you are getting more value for your time. You can do three or more runs, if you want to get a more pure product. A strip and two cutting runs is the most I have ever done and I usually just do strip runs and cut on a final combined rum.

Making cuts is done to remove undesirable elements from the finished result that you will drink. Different components come over at different temperatures. The centre part is the best for drinking, taste and health wise. You definitely want to be doing cuts on anything intended for neutral/vodka as well. Carbon filtering might remove some of the bad tasting components, but it won't remove the compounds that produce hangovers. The very first bit off the still will have most of the acetone, and some of the methanol, and other things you really don't want to drink. Don't get hung up on the methanol aspect, it is a non-issue. The stories you have heard about blindness etc were caused by some cheap and ignorant or malicious person adding methanol to produce a cheaper drunk. Fermenting sugar or grain or fruit is not going to produce a drink that will cause blindness.

If you like neat brandy, you are probably NOT going to like the essences. Well, unless you like exceedingly cheap brandy. Most of those essences are only acceptable (to me) in a mixed drink. Try some and decide for yourself. If you don't fancy them, then distilling a cheap white wine kit and aging it on toasted oak will give you a much better result. Read up on toasting, oak aging, etc first. I did this once and used the chips meant for wine. The result was drinkable, but not really nice. You need larger pieces of property toasted oak for that. These can be purchased or made.

Chuck

[Easydrinker]

Santa was really good this year,here is another new member, welcome phildebeast.
Clever wordplay..
You have already been given some good advice, get mashing, get stilling, come back and ask some questions.
ATB.

Robert

[Mash]

Chill. +1 to brandy (& most essences)

Depends IMO if you are a mixer or a sipper

[Phantom]

Chill. +1 to brandy (& most essences)

Depends IMO if you are a mixer or a sipper

While I'm generally happy with flavouring essences for most things, brandy is the one that I totally concur with Chill and Mash.

Yet when it comes to brandies, I'm no expert but about 30 years ago, I was lucky enough to taste some very good, very expensive ones (I suspect this is why I prefer Armagnac over cognac, Spanish, etc).

So yes indeed. Essence brandy is good for mixing etc, but for sipping I'd suggest/think that you'd want to thing more of "exact" ingredients and how it's made "properly".

Essence spirits are good, when you consider that they do more than a passing impression of the original. Yet plenty here are happy to encourage peeps to make better stuff. Whether it's just better neutral/vodka or to be a bit more ambitious and go for something closer to the genuine article.

I'm happy to go with essences usually as I can knock out some decent neutral in what ? 10 days, so I can make a bottle of whatever is on my mind........ Speed ..........

[phildebeast]

Just want to say thank you all so much for your input, invaluable is an understatement. You've certainly pointed me in the right direction and I think it's time to put it all into practice. Time to get a wash on I think
I'll keep you guys updated for sure. Thanks again for the warm welcome.
With regards to brandy and I maybe ashamed to say it but a friend of mine who does turbos did me a drop with the essence and I kind of enjoyed it, he admittedly under diluted it but it tasted like brandy non the less. Maybe my spirit palate is underdeveloped, I am a beer brewer after all.

[chill]

Well, if you have found a brandy essence that you enjoy, then the thing to do is mix some up, sit back, and enjoy the fruit of your labours. As a beer brewer you will already understand the satisfaction of drinking what you have made with your own hands and mind.

[Mash]

"..and I kind of enjoyed it" we all have dirty secrets

As a fellow brewer....ignore the subtles of taste and carefulness you ferment beer with. It is only the alcohol you want. So a nice gentle stress free ferment, use loads of yeast (yes indeed) it is dirt cheap baker yeast.

Then get down to the good bit.....

[phildebeast]

OK, i m back.
I made my turbo that came with the airstill and it was a success. I got 5 litres of 40% alcohol which I added a brandy, a vsop, a spice rum and two gins too. The brandy sachet tasted more like metaxa which I enjoyed, the vsop hit the spot for me. The gin is making waves with my parents and the spiced rum was supped in no time. So all in all for a turbo or my lack of taste buds I was mighty impressed.
This morning I bunged on a tpw to trial it out, its frothing like a meth addict going cold turkey. What % should I expect from a single 4l charge?
I have been looking into vodka star aswell, what can I expect from avodka star wash and will it need the refinement of the my original turbowash ie, liquid carbo, turbo clear, final filtration etc.
All in all cheers guys for your help so far, I am certainly enjoying this cheeky little air still and the hobby along with it.
Phil.

[Phantom]

OK, i m back.
I made my turbo that came with the airstill and it was a success. I got 5 litres of 40% alcohol which I added a brandy, a vsop, a spice rum and two gins too. The brandy sachet tasted more like metaxa which I enjoyed, the vsop hit the spot for me. The gin is making waves with my parents and the spiced rum was supped in no time. So all in all for a turbo or my lack of taste buds I was mighty impressed.
This morning I bunged on a tpw to trial it out, its frothing like a meth addict going cold turkey. What % should I expect from a single 4l charge?
I have been looking into vodka star aswell, what can I expect from avodka star wash and will it need the refinement of the my original turbowash ie, liquid carbo, turbo clear, final filtration etc.
All in all cheers guys for your help so far, I am certainly enjoying this cheeky little air still and the hobby along with it.
Phil.

Dunno about the numbers Phil. I used to use the SS Triple distilled turbo yeast along with the carbon and finings (just following the instructions) successfully. Yes I do have a "Z" filter with which I carbon filter all my neutral before mixing, but that wasn't always the case (It just helped to speed things up when I got my T500).

These days, I just do vodka star but no carbon, and I don't bother with the finings either. I just make the batch as per instruction, then after it's finished fermenting, I leave it an extra week or so too clear naturally as much as it can.

I then just fill the smart/air/easy still, some boil enhancers (rashig rings, and some slices off a 15mm copper pipe) and some distillers conditioner, then fire it up and do that as a "stripping run" (I leave it until i'm getting about 10% ABV in the collection bottle or testing tube). I just keep doing stripping runs until I've run all the wash, then I measure the collected "low wines" and let it down with reverse osmosis water to <40% ABV, then do the spirits run (dumping the first 25ml per still charge). I don't bother doing the cuts etc that some like to do (because it's just sugar wash and the sugar is already well refined, producing very few off flavours/notes in the spirit IMO). I keep it all running until the product is coming out the still at 40%. The first part is kept to be let down to 40% for carbon filtering and flavouring. The still is left running and the rest is just added back into the other low wines waiting to be run for spirit (I hope this makes sense).

It doesn't need filtering generally but I do, because i have the kit........

It's hard to give an answer about numbers as it depends on how much alcohol is actually produced by the ferment in the first place. A good example is that if you calculate the difference between your start gravity and your finish gravity and the difference is 100 points (SG 1.100 and FG 1.000 for an easy example) then the wash will be 13.58% ABV - in other words if you could distill to 100% alcohol, then you'd have 3.395 litres. Obviously the wider the difference between start and finish numbers the greater the quantity of pure alcohol in the mix.

Most turbos seem to work on about the 14% area by using 6kg of sugar to 21 litres of water (which often ferments down to 0.990 so you get a bit over 14%). Of course, you could use a wine yeast with a higher alcohol tolerance and then use some wine nutrients to get a greater level of alcohol, but I'm a believer in not being greedy as that can lead to off flavours that come through in the spirit at the end.

I've yet to find what I consider a good/nice tasting brandy essence (I was spoiled many years back, having the chance to taste some very good, very expensive brandies - which means I prefer Armagnac to Cognac, and French over Spanish or Greek equivalents).

But I find many of the essence flavourings do come out very good...........

[Icefever]

Right here I go....

OK, i m back.
I made my turbo that came with the airstill and it was a success. I got 5 litres of 40% alcohol which I added a brandy, a vsop, a spice rum and two gins too. The brandy sachet tasted more like metaxa which I enjoyed, the vsop hit the spot for me.

Welcome back...well done, it's a great feeling when you get to drink what your new hobby is all about. I don't use essence, I did but not now.

The gin is making waves with my parents and the spiced rum was supped in no time. So all in all for a turbo or my lack of taste buds I was mighty impressed.

For the Gin take a look at Mash's thread here could be the icing on the cake.

This morning I bunged on a tpw to trial it out, its frothing like a meth addict going cold turkey.

Where did that come from


What % should I expect from a single 4l charge?
I have been looking into vodka star aswell, what can I expect from avodka star wash and will it need the refinement of the my original turbowash ie, liquid carbo, turbo clear, final filtration etc.

I've never used Vodka star, some guys say it's good, give it a go and that way you'll see for yourself.




All in all cheers guys for your help so far, I am certainly enjoying this cheeky little air still and the hobby along with it.
Phil.