carbon

[Myles]

This will probably upset a few folks.

You really do not need to carbon filter. It is only needed if your still is working below its optimum potential.

It does have a valid use for removing some pectin hazes but the entire idea of heads removal is a myth. There are hundreds of different activated carbon filter media and each one has a specific purpose. They all work by absorbing specific components - they are a sponge.

You can re-use them but cleaning them makes a real stink. You have to drive off the stuff they sucked in previously.

I know they work - but if you change the methods you use they become redundant. Except for a few haze issues that you just can`t fix without filtration of some sort.

[H12rpo]

I agree.......although we’re likely to be tried for heresy !

[Myles]

Some of the commercial folks even use this as an advertising aid. They market the product as "non chill filtered*

I have never looked to see what difference there is between filtered and non filtered product.

There has to be money there for someone.

[Easydrinker]

Bugger, bugger, bugger!
I had one last post here to read before an early night and it was this one...
A promise is a promise so, for domasj this is my take on carbon filtering.

Carbon filtering will NOT remove Heads and Tails from an intended neutral spirit.
The heads and tails are comprised of various higher and lower alcohols other than the Ethanol that you seek.
The hearts cut that you make will/should be, just Ethanol, at whatever % your still produces, some are low, some work at the optimum level.
You should end up with mostly Ethanol.
You will however probably catch some lower and higher alcohols with the "hearts", known as congeners, fusel oils, etc.
These a good carbon filter, with the right activated charcoal can catch and remove.
If it doesn't then they are not toxic, just taste spoilers.
Activated charcoal works best with filtering spirit below 45%.
Don't ask me why.

I hope that helps.

Robert.

[Mash]

I agree.......although we’re likely to be tried for heresy !

Yup I will swing with you guys.

I will add that it about processes from the get go. Clean sugar and a good fermentation on non stressed, properly fed and managed yeast.

[Leatherman]

Thank you all very much for answers. Robert, big thats for top answer.

So I read this Gert Strand book, very interesting and easy to read. And found few interesting things there. About leaving carbon in water for 24 hours before filtering. Changing water four times. I was about to do it, but accident happened for my lady and all pretreated carbon ended on kitchen floor. She wasnt very happy about all my stuff in kitchen and one wrong word from me, would ended me resting on these floor next to carbon with blue eye

So I decided to take new carbon, soak it in boiling water and leave it to cool. The repeat again with new water. Accoding to book, when pretreating, carbon pH could rise and carbon will be less efective. This is reason to change water. Checked pH in first and second carbon soaking water. Bouth times was around 8.

Then stuffed all carbon in tube and started filter my 45% neutral. I use SS carbon filtration system I bought from LoveBreving. (Which accorsing to book is not good, because it should be atleast 1.5 meter long and 38 mm wide to avoid "wall efect". Can someone give a comment on this, please)

Well anyway, before that I fitrated acording to manual. Put carbon in, run some water through then run neutral. 10 litres usualy took all evening and night to go though. This time with pretreated carbon it took around 6 hours. Any ideas or explanations why?

And also according to the book, you shouldnt run twice on same carbon. Due to it might wash out that was absorbed in first filtration. Any ideas on that?

Anyway as I said. Big thanks for answers, sorry about spelling. Writing this post from my phone

[Icefever]

I agree.......although we’re likely to be tried for heresy !

Yup I will swing with you guys.

I will add that it about processes from the get go. Clean sugar and a good fermentation on non stressed, properly fed and managed yeast.[/quote]

Couldn't have said it any better B.... I've live by that for the time I've been doing this hobby.

[Myles]

@domasj
Wall effect - your product slides down the inside wall of the tube and gets to the bottom without much contact with carbon. The wider your tube - the less this happens.

Activated carbon really is a sponge. The impurities penetrate into the pores in the carbon and stick there. It is not working like a sand filter where the impurities fill the gaps between the grains. It also takes time so you need to run the spirit through the filter bed slowly to give it time to work.

Saturating the carbon bed removes air and also packs the bed better. I would just use a taste test. If you can taste impurities in your product, it is time to replace or clean the carbon. Remember they WANT you to buy more carbon.

If the impurities could "wash out" it would not be so difficult to clean the carbon!!!

You need to use steam or an oven to do it. The truth is you need to get the carbon hot enough to re-evaporate the impurities. The smell is really offensive. I did it one time in the kitchen and was very firmly told to never do it in the house again.

[Easydrinker]

Thanks Myles, for responding to this thread without dissing it.
Your opinion as an early member poster and proven distiller and still builder is valued here, by those of us in the know.
Some of the Earlier/later posters, on this thread, that I would consider mates just seem a little "Skewed".

I now think it may be snob value.

You may agree with me that we could make a mash with the finest grains and some good nutrients.
We might also do the same with wallpaper paste and sugar?
Ripped up cardboard boxes and the right amylase enzyme?

My friends here, with their wonderful brews that need no filtering after a double distill,I tip my hat and wish you happiness.
My friends here that need further action after a double distill, maybe look to your cuts, but maybe consider carbon filtering.
I Carbon filter with virtually all my neutral, it is not something that I am ashamed of.
Carbon filtering will clean Hearts. No question.

Robert.

[Myles]

There are certainly mixed feelings about carbon, but I am not opposed to it on principle.

I have used it previously, but with my current methods I don't often need to. I do have a bag of carbon on the shelf just in case. There are some commercial guys on other forums that maintain the only way their product will pass quality control is if the do filter it.

Certainly there are some issues that can't be fixed in any other way.

The only time I would take a harsh opinion on it relates to something we hopefully won't see very often. There was an old method of low temperature distilling in a plastic bucket where the claim was that you could do a strip run with no cuts at all, and then carbon filter to get a good product. I try to stop folks going down that route.

[Mash]

Carbon filtering for me is one of the many tools in the distillers toolbox.
It's something I rarely use, but I know how to, if I need to.

I am blessed with very good water for fermentation, not everyone is.

There is no one way, we have to find our way, using the variety of tools available to us.

[Klunk]

I carbon filter as I have very hard water round this neck of the woods. If I don't I find that my jars do end up with some residue after a period of time. That and I do like to add a bit of polish to it

polish - not Polish

[Easydrinker]

That is another reason that I had not considered.

Water here is as soft can be.

Robert.

[Myles]

Some of the folks also talk about filtering (not necessarily carbon) to control louche.

[Easydrinker]

Again, louche is something that I had not considered.
I like it in my Prestige essence flavoured Ouzo.
It is good to keep learning.

Robert.