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[Mash]

I think RO water is ok. But I Phantom is the man to answer this one!

[Ted]

Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify, to achieve the 0ppm purity it's de-ionised RO water. I guess there's two parts to me question:

Firstly is there a 'scientific' reason why I shouldn't even consider using the RO water? For example, because it's de-ionised the RO water is more reactive than distilled water.

Secondly and purely on the basis of the taste of the final product am I simply better going with either distilled or spring water?

[Mash]

PHANTOM !! Help! I am drowning here

Better - I am going to repost this into a new thread 'cos that s a great question !

[Phantom]

De-ionised as well ? Don't know, that's outside of the learning and searching I did when I found out about the using hard water issue.......

[Mash]

about the using hard water issue.......

??

[Ted]

Phantom, Mash - thanks for the responses.

For info the RO/DI is recommended for the marine fish tank to try and ensure all the crap is removed from the tap water. This is taken into account when the manufacturers put their synthetic salt mixes together.

I've done a bit more reading and found various warnings that suggest that due to its reactive nature RO/DI might corrode stainless steel. Perhaps best to keep it away from the Air Still and go with spring or distilled water.

[Phantom]

Phantom, Mash - thanks for the responses.

For info the RO/DI is recommended for the marine fish tank to try and ensure all the crap is removed from the tap water. This is taken into account when the manufacturers put their synthetic salt mixes together.

I've done a bit more reading and found various warnings that suggest that due to its reactive nature RO/DI might corrode stainless steel. Perhaps best to keep it away from the Air Still and go with spring or distilled water.

Many in the wine/mead world go on about any dissolved minerals and nutrition etc. I take the view that if what you're making needs consistency, then as many variations need to be reduced as possible i.e. so straight RO or distilled water will work fine if you are supplying all the nutritional needs of the yeast so yeast energiser/nutrients in an appropriate dosage.

Distilled water is just that. Whereas the term "spring" water is bollocks. All it means when that term is applied to bottled water, is that the bottling plant is at the spring site, and that if there's whatever reason that they can't have the bottling plant at the spring site, then it can't be called spring water. It doesn't tell you the where or why of dissolved minerals, that'd only be a known, if you know where the water was extracted from (and know something of water chemistry and how it affects other organisms)......

As above, I can't say for the de-ionised bit, that's not something I've found I had to explore etc, but RO down to at least <50ppm TDS should be fine as should distilled water if you know the levels of yeast consumable nutrition provided by the materials used (and AFAIK, the only manufacturer that gives the required data about that is Lallemand).

Of course, the relevance of this depends on what you're making. If the base wash is sugar neutral then you do indeed need to know those details. If you're going for something that uses materials that already have most of not all the yeast needs, then things change and that's where you may need professional/commercial standard analysis if extreme accuracy is your thing, like using malts, molasses or other sugar industry "waste", or other agricultural elements (grapes for example).......

[Easydrinker]

Of course, the relevance of this depends on what you're making. If the base wash is sugar neutral then you do indeed need to know those details. If you're going for something that uses materials that already have most of not all the yeast needs, then things change and that's where you may need professional/commercial standard analysis if extreme accuracy is your thing, like using malts, molasses or other sugar industry "waste", or other agricultural elements (grapes for example).......





I do not wish to contradict any of the above.

But "spring" water is not bollocks.

I have now personally known two producers of "spring" water.
One, small scale in Devon, doing his own bottling and marketing.
One large scale not far from me here in scotland, supplying just about every bottled supermarket water with "Strath" as the start of the name.
Both went through rigorous tests, over time, (and continue to do so) to prove that their water falls within certain consistent parameters, i.e. consistent mineral levels, no aggricides, consistent ph etc.
Their water is as consistent as any water authority WITHOUT added Chlorine or other additives.

We are all free to make choices.

Robert.

[Phantom]

I do not wish to contradict any of the above.

But "spring" water is not bollocks.

I have now personally known two producers of "spring" water.
One, small scale in Devon, doing his own bottling and marketing.
One large scale not far from me here in scotland, supplying just about every bottled supermarket water with "Strath" as the start of the name.
Both went through rigorous tests, over time, (and continue to do so) to prove that their water falls within certain consistent parameters, i.e. consistent mineral levels, no aggricides, consistent ph etc.
Their water is as consistent as any water authority WITHOUT added Chlorine or other additives.

We are all free to make choices.

Robert.

You've missed the point Robert.

Consistent testing has repeatedly demonstrated/proven that ALL utility water a.k.a. "tap" water to be cleaner with less of the potential contaminants than any bottled waters.

That's not to say that spring or other bottled water is bad - it's not. Notwithstanding that water bottlers do have to meet a minimum hygiene standard. They generally don't process the water but will sanitise it with ozone and even UV.

The bollocks I was alluding to is the health claims many try to use, but get shot down in a shower of shit because they MUST have scientific proof to back those up. Also it's a legal requirement that they can only call it "spring" water if it's bottled at source.

They have to list a mineral breakdown on the label.


As I say, bottled water isn't bad, even tap water has region variations, like the calcium here as different to what you'd get, because of the differing geology. Some springs can taste bad because of minerals like iron and sulphur, hell some will even be signposted as hazardous because of naturally occurring arsenic.

Many novice makers attribute abilities to the mineral content as being good for yeast. Yet they fail to understand that the water would need the mineral content of raw sewage (ok, maybe that's a bit much, grey water then) for it to count toward yeast nutrition.

If course, some ingredients used at the point of ferment will provide nutrients for the yeast, but they're hard to measure and inconsistent as with any natural product. The one mineral that is known to have a negative impact on distilled spirits is calcium, as it gives a harsh note to the taste.

Hence the summary being that while you can use so called spring water which probably isn't gonna be bad, the use of the term "spring" is just a legal/marketing thing that helps the seller suggest that it might be better through allusion, to an uneducated public who thinks it's some sort of magic bullet and route to health.......

Oh, and distilled water isn't recommended routinely as it can absorb some nutrient type minerals from other ingredients, which is why some suggest that nutrient calculation should be worked out from data for nutrient/energiser adjuncts to reflect the expected %ABV at the end of the ferment (this is more important with honey and sugar, as neither have any appreciable levels of nutrient).

For that level of fermentation accuracy, you need to know the level of nitrogen provided as well as the levels of various vitamins mainly B vitamins but also traces of many other elements. The only nutrients that publish enough data are the Lallemand range which can be hard to find, and the known properties of Di-ammonium phosphate.........

[Easydrinker]

Consistent testing has repeatedly demonstrated/proven that ALL utility water a.k.a. "tap" water to be cleaner with less of the potential contaminants than any bottled waters.


I retain the right to dispute this line. For reasons of Chlorine and Flouride additives amongst others.

Other than that, I will agree with the rest of your post above, and accept that I was missing the point that you were trying to make earlier.

Robert.

[H12rpo]

Hi guys
Been doing a lot of reading on here, and just been to see a friends set up (a T500) and sampled a few gins! I was originally thinking of an airstill but my ambitions seem now to be either a T500 or possibly a diy build.
I want to mostly make whiskey.
I can't see any links or subject headings for plans (in particular for a column build) on this site unless I'm missing something??
The other question I have is what on earth are Bubble plates ?
No doubt I'll be asking further questions
Cheers

[Easydrinker]

Hi, and welcome.
Take yourself off to the Build your own section here, almost everything that you could ever need to know about just any type of still.
If you are interested in whisky/whiskey you won't need bubble plates, but all that information is available too.
Have fun.

Robert.

[Mash]

An AS is a surprising piece of kit. And are easily bought second hand for about £100. Might be a good way to get started.

Worth asking yourself what part of this hobby you like most. Are you a drinker, maker or builder. That will help you better understand your still choice.

[Easydrinker]

Mash makes some good points.
I will pick up on the volume of product that you need for own consumption.
Until you know that stilling is for you, an Air still/Smart Still is a low cost introduction.
Some choose never to change.
This is basically an Air Still site, that welcomes and encourages friendly owners of other diverse still types.
Some move on to bigger things, Some don't.
You don't earn Kudos points here for being bigger and faster.
It is being friendly and helpful that gets you noticed here.
The odd arguement is also good, if conducted respectfully.
There is a lot of information posted on this site.
Please, do not expect it to work like Google.

However you choose to do it, I wish you well.

Robert.

[H12rpo]

Thanks for the wisdom fellas. I'm leaning towards a T500...... am I right in thinking that if I almost exclusively want to produce whiskey, the alembic or pot head is preferable over the reflux column?