What percentage do I make cuts ?

[guest5234]

MAKING A GIN, I have 3 gallons of spirit at 50% after stripping run on pot still, going to run through t500 and just keep the hearts for a spirit run with pot still, whats the best way to make my cuts on t500? collect in jars and just taste.?

[Easydrinker]

I had to read this a couple of times to understand your question.
I think that I now do.
My advice, if you are only wanting the Hearts for a Gin run:
Dilute your strip to sub 30%, ( add a little more than 9 litres of water, if your gallons are Imperial).

The cuts,
failing someone coming along with better advice,
You have around 680 UK units of alcohol there,
(some of this is Fores and Tails),
(Volume in Ml x % / 1000 = unit)

On the T500 run call the first 100 units collected Fores/Heads, you have to do the math here.
You could probably safely call the next 400 units hearts.
You may wish to back this up, with jars each side of the numbers given, and tasting yourself.

HTH

Robert.

[Myles]

Sounds reasonable Robert.
On the best packed column ever, you are doing well to get the heads concentrated to 10%.

You can run off 10% and be sure it will be heads, then collect in smaller jars through the transition.

Once you know you are in hearts possibly use bigger jars until the next transition.

You are likely to have 25% to 30% tails - possibly a bit more. You can estimate where the cuts will be and use smaller jars around that transition point.

And yes - air out and test before blending later.

[Anavrin]

This is how I would do it

Charge the still with a known quantity of alcohol say 20 litres at 30%

Therefore you have theoretically got 6 litres of 100% alcohol in the mix, if your T500 produces 92% spirit, then you have 100*(6 / 92)= 6.52 litres to collect in order to remove all the alcohol during the spirit run.

Now let’s make some assumptions, the tails will be the last 20% or 1.3 litres, and the heads/fores will be the first 30%

Therefore collect the first 1.96 litres as heads/fores, then the next 3.26 litres as hearts before turning the boiler off, the remaining 1.3 litres of tails can be left behind and thrown away with the backset.

By all means collect more or less, what ever you please, even use smaller jars around the cut points, but you won’t be far out, I’ve even used this method for cuts blindly in the past, without tasting anything, it onlys works for neutral from sugar wash’s though.

[gaza the instructor]

Good shot mate well said

[Thunderbird]

I realise the maths here is theoretical because I find I don’t seem to get tails with the T500. I know you’ll probably say they’re there but I find there’s no transition to that wet cardboard smell I get with the Airstill. It just makes spirit then stops. Yes, there are some heads which I air and then add back if it tastes okay. Am I doing something wrong? I don’t want to chuck out perfectly drinkable spirit because of some maths if it’s not necessary.

[Brewhunter]

There is always tails from the T500, are you running it until it stops producing?

[Easydrinker]

I realise the maths here is theoretical because I find I don’t seem to get tails with the T500. I know you’ll probably say they’re there but I find there’s no transition to that wet cardboard smell I get with the Airstill. It just makes spirit then stops. Yes, there are some heads which I air and then add back if it tastes okay. Am I doing something wrong? I don’t want to chuck out perfectly drinkable spirit because of some maths if it’s not necessary.

Sticking my neck out here, as I usually do.

I have never run a T500, I understand that the outcome is variable according to various settings of power and cooling.
This may affect what is left in the boiler after a run.
My own stills, the way that I run them seem to do like likewise. I don't find tails coming through any more.
So I am in common agreement with Thunderbird.

I do check what is left in the boiler, and eh voila, there they seem to be....

Robert.

[Brewhunter]

Thunderbird having reread your post may I suggest that you rely less on the smell when trying to find tails and more on your tasting, I know what you mean about the smell from airstill tails but I find with the T500 is it's easier tasting it.
Also as a rough guide you can pinch some spirit between your fingers as you reach the tails you'll notice it feels slightly more greasy.

[Thunderbird]

Thunderbird having reread your post may I suggest that you rely less on the smell when trying to find tails and more on your tasting, I know what you mean about the smell from airstill tails but I find with the T500 is it's easier tasting it.
Also as a rough guide you can pinch some spirit between your fingers as you reach the tails you'll notice it feels slightly more greasy.

Brewhunter, I've been working hard over the past week. Did the strip using the T500 reflux column, then did the spirit run. I used a bit of a combination of info from GinBob over at Home Distiller (Making cuts with T500 Reflux) and George from Barley and Hops on YouTube (How do we separate foreshots, heads, hearts and tails?).

I had 2 lots of strip from 48 litres so chucked the first 300ml of foreshots, then I collected 2 x 100ml of heads and a further jar of 200ml. GinBob was right and the first 200ml went into my feints bottle (there's no way it was going into my hearts as it tasted terrible). He doesn't bother with further heads and again, he was right and the next 200ml were blended in with the hearts as it tasted absolutely fine.

George reckons there's a definite temperature change between heads and hearts and yes, I watched this happen. Spirit stopped running, the temperature climbed slightly (I know the thermometer is on the cooling water but it did happen) and sprit recommenced running. This was the hearts and GinBob says to collect approx 2/3 of what you put in in it's undiluted state. 6.6 litres at 91% went in (diluted with 13L water) so I collected 4 litres at 93% then started collecting 250ml tails jars. I collected 5x 250ml tails and the first 500ml went back into the hearts as they tasted fine (after airing) and the final jars went into the feints as they were a bit rank by comparison.

So yes, I now seem to know how to find the tails with the T500 and it worked. It was one of the easiest spirit runs I've done with the T500 and produced 4.7L @93% of fabulous neutral.

Today I used the alembic setup along with the SS botanical basket. It's on the small side so I used a sputnik for some of the juniper. I upscaled Gaza's Plymouth gin recipe for the AS (the one with bitter orange peel) and have just made the most incredible gin. It is so smooth and it is completely unfiltered or air-stoned. Diluted to 42%abv I can drink it immediately with barely any trace of a bite so in a week or so it should be fantastic. I honestly put it down to the Vodka Star wash, it came out so clean and even tasting it after the strip it tasted good. It's going to be my sugar wash of choice from here on in.

[Brewhunter]

Hi Thunderbird, I'm glad you are making progress with the cuts. Here's a typical break down of a 48litre sugar wash for me using 10kg sugar in total.

After stripping I'll run at no hotter than 57'c
I'll take 100ml of fores
I'll collect the next 1900mls in 100ml jars
Then collect 2 litres of hearts in a demijohn
Now I'll collect maybe another 5 x 100ml jars in case there's any hearts left, further tails I won't bother with.

So basically I'll loose the first two litres (heads) give or take depending on tasting then I'll taste the jars at the end to see where the tails kick in.
Diluted to 40% I'll end up with around 5 litres.

I do not allow full reducing at the start of run so my heads cut maybe larger than some people's here. As you can see our figures are very different.

I'm not saying what I do is the best way it's just how I do it.

[RumJohn]

@ Thunderbird. I have no experience with a T500. However, certain events and actions take placewhile distilling, regardless of the equipment used.

Assuming we are aiming for a neutral product, once the column has reached eqilibrium (a necessary event) and you begin drawing off product, the column head temperature will begin to stabilize and on a long run will maintain that temp for the duration while drawing off the hearts. As one approaches the tails, the temp will begin rising.

I trust I have not over simplified this, but the basic concept is there. This makes a good argunent for doing longer runs as opposed to several short ones. You spend more time in the " sweet spot".

[Easydrinker]

This makes a good argument for doing longer runs as opposed to several short ones. You spend more time in the " sweet spot"
True ,true, true.
The larger the run, the less time messing with cuts.

Robert.