Essences or Malt.

[Ancient1]

I am in no way an expert, having only purchased a Smartstill some 18 months ago.

Since that time, having produced some initial \'sugar washes\' (aprox 18/20% it does vary),using Alcotec 48 with 8Kg of sugar, I felt the cost of using essences to flavour the subsequent distillations to be excessively high. Also, besides what I felt to be a poor reproduction of the particular flavour intended, there remained a \'chemical\' flavour from the nutrients in the yeast.
I have since experimented, using 2 Kg of Spray Malt and 7 Kg of sugar to make up to 23Ltrs of wash. I tend to run two such washes at a time, which result after distillation in roughly 23 Ltrs @ 40% in total.
This resulting 23 Ltrs (5gal) I place in a carboy and then pour in 5 packets of Young\'s French Wine Cask Oak Chips. Leave for at least 3 months and then pass through wine filter.
This gives me approximately 30 bottles of a drinkable product more nearly a whisky than that produced with essences AND much much cheaper!

[Opus 27]

Hi and Welcome,

You don\'t say in your post at which point you start collecting spirit and going by the quantity your colecting it sounds as if your saving the tails and possibly the head rather than just the middle run of good stuff. If this is the case that would explain your disappointment with essences/flavours. You don\'t mention either if you were carbon filtering. Essences/flavours added to good clean tasteless spirit really are pretty good and close to what they are copying.

True whisky/whiskey which you are attempting with spray malt relies on specific parts of the tails (cogeners) to impart flavour. Getting this right is quite an art as the tails contain lots of stuff you don\'t want particularly the stuff that creates \"Hangovers\" and of course there\'s also methanol in the heads.

Look forward to a bit more detail on what your doing.
Regards

Opus 27

[Ancient1]

Thanks for swift a reply. Nice to know these things do get read.
As I said, I have little expertise and would have to admit to be still experimenting.
My initial fermentations tend to towards 20% but, due to the use of malt, hydrometer readings are not necessarily accurate. To overcome this I tend to run my first distillation run to 2 ltrs out of the four ltr start volume, then test with alcohol-meter. This I feel gives me a more accurate reading of what the alcohol content actually is. Knowing this I simply return the distillation to the Smartstill, calculate the minimum amount I need to bring off to extract all the alcohol but, in general this means stopping it at 55%. I do throw away the first 20ml from each run through.
Having completed a 23 ltr wash, I re-dilute to bring it back to 23 ltrs, then re-distil to 40%, again throwing away the first 20ml.
There is some diminution of flavour by double distilling but by stopping the first run at 55% I felt that I have avoided most of the effects of what one means by \'tails\' . Again, I felt because the second run is with a much \'cleaner\' wash, I could safely run through to 40% after discarding the 20ml of \'heads\'.
It may simply be a matter of personal taste, but I do feel that the essences have an over abundance of such as spirit of caramel etc., and to me taste very synthetic.
Thank you for your interest and would appreciate further comments.

[Opus 27]

Without getting to complicated theres probably a couple of things you need to get your head around. firstly the type of still your using. I suspect from the quantity of wash your distilling, assuming all 23 litres are going in at once, you are using something like a super reflux if this is the case you should be collecting the good stuf by temperature between 79 and 84C. This should come out around 80+% anything less isn\'t good spirit from a sugar wash. If however your using one of the table top air stills usually taking 4 litres of wash, a 15% wash gives about 700 - 800 Mls at 60+% and this definately needs carbon filtering.

Hope some of this makes sense.
Regards Opus 27

[Ancient1]

The still is a table top Smart Still (4 ltr.). I do spend some with it time but, at my age all my time is \'playtime\' and living alone nobody has claims on my time or attention.
As with many of what might be called \'advanced age\' or, simply old, due to severely limited income,economics play a large part in what I attempt.
My wash, as mentioned, hovers around 20% after fermentation of the malt and sugar,
If there is a way to assess the temperature, as you mention,I would be pleased to learn, meanwhile I am relying on arithmetical calculations and frequent readings.
My first run, as mentioned, I throw the first 20ml (fore-shot or header), stop when readings show about 55%.. After diluting back to original 20%, I have then been distilling again down to 40% using the charcoal sachets supplied by Smart Still. On this second run I again throw the first 20ml which I run off before using the charcoal.
Final flavouring/ageing, is for me a two step process:
1.As mentioned, I place aprox\' 5 gallon in a carboy with 5 packets of oak chips
This I leave for at least two months.
2.This is then placed in an oak barrel from which I fill one decanter at a time as and when required.
I would add here that once in the oak barrel I do add half a cup of sherry in much the same way that a Balvenie is often placed in a second \'sherry\' cask for its final stage of aging.
I do feel that I an possibly dealing with the \'headers\' correctly but given what you said about \'tails\' and whisky I remain uncertain.
Although cautious about the expence, I am pondering the possibility of increasing the malt content as against the sugar used.
I also use the same procedures (excepting the oaking stages), using molasses to produce a white rum equivalent.
Most that have tried either of these drinks find them pleasantly drinkable. But, as ever, learning can, hopefully, only lead to further improvement.
Cheers.

[Ancient1]

[Opus 27]

Interesting you mention you\'ve reached that playtime generation, welcome to the club, I\'ve been there for a while. With your table top still you have no control on temperature (thats what I started out with and then the bug really bit) so you control the quality by watching the ABV%. When I was using a 25L wash with 6Kg of sugar I was collecting 700 ML after throwing the first 20 ML and this always came out at 62-63% which I then cut with RO water to 40%. I then carbon filtered with a Z Filter after which I had a pretty clean spirit. When it comes to essences I personaly prefer the Still Spirits Range particularly their Classics. If your a whiskey man though like myself you might want to try their Whisky Profile Kit that way you can adjust recipes to your taste. Most of us trying it leave out or reduce the caramel and glycerine from the recipes. One other thing is that back on the content page somewhere you will find a thread I started sometime ago on malt extract when I tried what your doing now. That might be worth a read. What I produced is still in the jar with oak chips but still not good whisky.
Opus 27

[Ancient1]

Carboy after soaking for two months on 5 packets of oak chips:

[Ancient1]

Resting and maturing in white oak barrel after carboy oaking:

[Opus 27]

Love the barrel. I\'ve toyed with the idea but they aint cheap so I keep finding something else to buy.
Opus 27

[Ancient1]

The I found, which is the one pictured, cost aproximately £60. It hold something just over 5 gallon, although there are a variety of sizes and prices.
I would mention though that I had immense problems with the standard tap they fit and their replacement, being the same model was no better.
In the end they sent me the brass tap you see in the picture, which, after modifying the tap bung by severely shortening it, so that the pressure of screwing it in is taken up by the end of the barrel rather than the stem of the bung, has served me well.
They are on line, located in the north of England, and their prices include delivery costs.
Should you be interested I could sort out the u.r.l. for them and post it.
Ancient.