PH buffers

[hampk]

FWIW my wash is sitting in the garage (ambient temp is around 8 degrees, I guess) in an FV wrapped in two large towels - I use a fish tank heater to keep it warm.

I'm now wondering whether there's an optimum wash time - my thought is maybe too fast = stressed yeasties and too slow = stressed Hampk!

I may be able to settle this myself as the last wash was a three week job to pretty much the same recipe except the Trono.

Cheers

Hampk

[Mash]

Will be interested to hear the results.

Although I do think the Tronozymol Leaves a particular taste on its own.

[hampk]

..wash is now down to 1.00 - four days in.

[Easydrinker]

1070 this is unusually high to get stuck. That's almost not started.
[[/color]Yeast needs some air to get going, and to be honest, you can't overdo it.

To airlock or not to airlock that is the question.
The only thing I can say is that I do not airlock anything fermenting more.
I use the youngs wide neck fermenters, with the lids on & then just crack them a little.

All my airlocks are used for bulk storage only.


EDIT: how much room are you leaving in the fermenter - between the top of the wash and the bottom of the airlock?

[/color]

I cannot argue with anything Mash has tapped here.
It all appears to be good info.

Robert.

[Icefever]

Anyway, I think my problem was that I didn't give it any air - I just tossed the yeast in and put the lid on with an airlock. I have now added a bit more yeast and given it some air and it is going quite nicely.

Mr H.

I find sometimes it pays to re-read a thread from the start again, there's a point I'd like to make if I may?. Yeast does indeed need oxygen, the following is well worth a read it's from Ian Smiley book.

Yeast has two primary modes of metabolism: aerobic; and, anaerobic. “Aerobic” means in the presence of oxygen,and “anaerobic” means in the absence of oxygen. In it’s aerobic state, yeast multiplies and increases its population within the fermentable substrate. In its anaerobic state, yeast stops multiplying and begins converting sugar to alcohol and carbon dioxide.

This transition from aerobic to anaerobic metabolism is a very natural process in fermentation. Anyone who has made homemade wine or beer observes this every time they add the yeast starter. First, the wine or beer goes through an eight to 20-hour lag time, and then the fermentation appears to start. During the lag time the yeast is consuming the dissolved oxygen in the substrate and is multiplying very rapidly. This is the aerobic phase.
When the dissolved oxygen is completely consumed the, now abundant, yeast population begins producing alcohol and carbon dioxide. This is the anaerobic phase. The carbon dioxide is observed as the profuse bubbling that is characteristic of fermentation. In order for yeast cells to be healthy and viable, the yeast needs certain nutrients, particularly, in the aerobic phase where cell multiplication is taking place.

Among the many nutrients, nitrogen and amino acids are very important to yeast growth. Some fermentation methods, such as the fermentation of straight sugar and water, can avoid supplying nutrients by adding a very large charge of yeast. This avoids the need for an aerobic phase of cell multiplication because a sufficient population of yeast cells is present from the outset. However, the yeast has limits under these conditions. A straight sugar and water substrate with no yeast nutrients will rarely attain more than 8% alcohol before the yeast dies off.

Your 10sec time lapse, I have noticed the same and I put that down to the Co2 building up pressure in the fermenter to the point were it vents..and then starts all over again. I've watched a lid flex, burp, then relax just to do again & again..

[Mash]

That makes sense ICE the water will have a mass, that needs to be shifted.
I gave up on fermentation locks years ago. If you get your fermentation through in sensible time and leave room for the CO2 cover, you only need something just to keep debris & flies out.

[hampk]

.. Now at .993 and pretty much done - 5 days total.

[Easydrinker]

I do all my fermenting and stilling indoors, let's say above 20°C.

[MrHodge]

Thanks for the info Icefever - that makes sense (both the oxygen and the burping). The Ian Smiley book quote says

…During the lag time the yeast is consuming the dissolved oxygen in the substrate and is multiplying very rapidly…

, so if the yeast gets the oxygen from the substrate I guess it shouldn’t matter that I didn’t leave the lid off for a while after adding the yeast.

I also made a discovery on Friday - my wash was bubbling away through the airlock nicely, I took the lid off to measure the gravity and then replaced the lid - the airlock did not restart bubbling. After a bit of investigation, I found that the lid did not seal perfectly at one position and after sorting it out, the bubbling continued. So I am now thinking that maybe it never stopped in the first place - the gas was just finding the easiest way out through the leaky lid.

On the question of airlock or loose lid - I quite like the visual sign of the activity in the airlock so I know it going at a glance - Assuming no leaks of course

[Easydrinker]

I am going to disagree with you here, purely because for the last two or three years everything has been loose lidded and not air-locked.
The fermenting buckets may still be throwing off the odd big burpy bubble as I rack them off, but I have a system that works for me.
If you haven't tried,maybe give it a go.


Robert.

[MrHodge]

Yes, I think I will give it a try with my next wash...

[Easydrinker]

Let me say again,
There is "NO ONE TRUE WAY"
If it works for you, share it.
If it doesn't, then maybe share that too.
And if anyone gives you grief, send them in my direction

Robert.

[Mash]

Mine has just finished (with buffers) in just over two weeks appears to be about the same.

Next up, I'm going to run them a little hotter. 25C instead of 19C

Quick update. PH buffers waste of time imo. Made no difference. Probably a slightly off taste but very slight.

However 28c & 100g done in 7 days and v dry. Well done Robert!

[Myles]

Hi everyone, what I really want to know, and couldn't see on here isn't about flavour, it is about pH.

what pH did you start and end the fermentation? What did it stabilise at, and does it matter what the pH is before you put the buffer in?

I haven't ever used them myself, so don't know.

[chill]

Hi Myles,

Within reason, it does not matter what the pH is before. The purpose of the buffer to move the pH and lock it at a specific value. I usually aim for 5+/-. Different buffer formulas (ratio of acid to base) will lock in different pH values. Most of the time it finishes at what the buffer moved it to at the beginning of fermentation. I have had a few washes that produced a LOT of acid (due to poor nutrition is my guess) and the pH drifted down to about 4.5.

Chuck