What do you do (collecting-wise) ?

[Phantom]

Ok, so the instructions that came with my smart still explained about marking off the 800ml level on the plastic collector container.
Great! So I get the 800mls at about 58 to 60% ABV. It\'s pretty easy just to chuck the rest of what\'s left down the stink and start again.
I\'ve taken to collecting the 800mls, pouring that into a DJ, but then leaving the still running for an extra hour or so.
Why? Because if I do that, I get a further 400 to 500mls of distillate. When checked, this \"meters up\" at about 18 to 20% ABV.
So I treat this as \"backset\" and it goes into the next batch for distillation.
I understand that some professional distillers will actually keep the still running right down to 1% ABV for their backset. Now I don\'t think it\'s worth the effort/economic for us to do that on the \"home\" basis, but as the still would already be hot from collecting the first 800mls, it\'s not really going to use that much energy to get a further 400 to 500mls as backset.
At least it saves wasting much in the way of drinkable alcohol that we\'ve gone to so much effort to make in the first place!

[goinbroke2]

I run the tails to about 20%. Sometimes 30% if I\'m in a hurry. Does it say anywhere in the directions to toss the first 50ml as foreshots?

[umpa]

I do the same as you phantom. Only I take out the heads on the last run, I distil three times, 1 the 800 mls and dj it, carry on till it drops to 20% and dj that. Fill the still up with another 4 lts and keep doing it till all my wash is gone.
Then I distill the 20% backset untill it drops lower than 60% and then bin the rest. When all the backset is @ 60% I mix it in with the first lot and distill it all again gobbing the first 50ml for heads. This time keeping a real close eye on the avb because it drops of rapid. Usually I get between 3/4 to 1 gallon of 85% which has been triple distiller (almost) and carbon filtered 3 times.
On my last batch I kept the heads in and still had no problems like headaches etc, I use turbos maybe that\'s why.

[Jimmy]

The \'heads\' on a SmartStill should be pretty small (technically the foreshots) but the first part of the distillate can sometimes be a bit meths-ish and spoil the taste - however, proper carbon filtering usually gets rid of that anyway and sounds like you do that Umpa.
On the headaches front - that was what surprised me the most about my SS - no matter how much of my own product I drank, I never got a headache or hangover unlike with commercial vodka (albeit they were much better than other spirits/beer/wine, etc).

[umpa]

Yes I really like the ss it\'s a great machine.

[Phantom]

Well I don\'t know if it\'s just that the original materials are quite pure anyway i.e. the sugar has already been refined to hell and back.......
so if you\'re just adding water and the yeast/nutrients and carbon, then there are very little in the way of \"nasties\" in it anyway.
Ergo, if you can distil it to as high a purity as possible, then cut it with either distilled, de-ionized or RO water then it\'s only the dehydration of the brain (caused by drinking too much) or any possible impurities in the flavourings.
Commercial spirits (particularly brandy, whiskey and rum) tend to have some of the foreshots and/or tails/esters left in for the flavouring. That\'s without factoring in anything that comes from the wood/barrels.
It\'s also why you tend to get less of a hangover with Vodka and Gin......

[Jimmy]

My theory is that commercial vodka is made by constant distillation, whereas when I do it I throw away more of the nasty parts, small as they may be.

[Phantom]

My theory is that commercial vodka is made by constant distillation, whereas when I do it I throw away more of the nasty parts, small as they may be.

That\'s also my understanding Jimmy.........
Though I\'m not so sure what it is that they use to make their wash i.e. grain, sugar or what??????
Yes, I\'d guess that a continuous still would be more energy/cost effective, but it\'s a case of whether they just run the whole process up to a specified level (for example 40 or 45% or something like that) and then let it back down to the percentage ABV ready for shipping (and then they just pay the appropriate levels of excise duty) or whether there are other elements to the process that we haven\'t thought of....
Personally if I had the chance, I\'d happily run a setup, but start with buying the sugar on the open market, followed by replenishment by buying "sugar futures" to stabilise the cost, ferment it in bulk and then continuously distill it to as high a percentage as possible - it can be let down with RO water (which I\'m pretty sure could easily be part mains and part rainwater - cleansed/purified) and the marketing hype would be all about purity etc......

[goinbroke2]

The \"nasties\" are caused by the yeast.

If you are very carefull with temps and keep the wash to less than 10%ABV and a couple other tricks you will seriously minimise the production of ester\'s \"nasties\". If you are brewing wine/beer/liquor it all must start with fermenting and depending on the care you take will depend on the amount of \"nasties\" produced. If you stress the yeast from bouncing or high temps, high ABV, wrong nutrients (or lack of) then you will produce more. When you distill, for some reason you can\'t figure, THIS particular batch had a lot more foreshots/heads/tails. It could of been the 17% you were trying to ferment with wine yeast etc. Turbo\'s are notorious for producing \"off\" flavours and it is directly related to the type and amount of nutrients used.

Commercial distillers find it more economical to be very carefull when fermenting than to lose more when cutting. And yes they do keep more congeners for the flavour even if it results in hangovers. We are not so exact when it comes to the fermenting and production of nasties but we can afford to lose more during cutting, resulting in better overall product.
As far as vodka goes, I know over here it is common (cough, blue sky, cough) to buy GNS (grain neutral spirit) and filter it and bottle it. There is very minimal difference from one vodka to another for this reason. Yes the vast majority of vodka is produced with grain, some with wheat, etc. Very few (contrary to popular belief) are potato, the starch levels are way to low to be economical)
Most commercial distillers over here who use a pot still only go down to around 20%-30%. I\'ve found that it takes time to get to 25% but the last 10% (down to 15%, the lowest I\'ve ever gone) doesn\'t take too long, it\'s just that the volume is so little. Checking the records I got 4L on this particular run to go from 78% to 76%, yet to go from 25% to 15% was only 1L. So to run it all the way down you would only get another Litre or two but it would take another 20-30 minutes of run time. Definately not economical.
As far as cask strength and bottling strength. Depending on the ABV, you will get different flavours. Higher 65-75% will give more vanilla and 50-60% will give more tannins. There is a LOT more to it but you get the picture. A certain maker will cask at 65% for example and then when they bottle it they will cut it to 40% or whatever.
Oh, one last thing about sugar. Over here it is illegal to call anything made with sugar \"whiskey\" or whatever. You must by law do a starch conversion and ferment the converted natural sugars. You CANNOT add sugar at any time. The one exception is if you are distilling brandy and you bottle it as \"fruit spirit\". In other words you can chaptalise (add sugar) to boost the ABV in applejack for example, but then you must bottle it as a \"apple spirit\" not \"applejack\". The same as grapes/brandy etc. Other than this one exception, you cannot use sugar.
Here\'s from the reg\'s \"§24.216 Distilling material.

Wine may be produced on bonded wine premises from grapes and other fruit, natural

fruit products, or fruit residues, for use as distilling material, using any quantity of water

desired to facilitate fermentation or distillation. No sugar may be added in the production

of distilling material. Distillates containing aldehydes may be used in the fermentation of

wine to be used as distilling material. Lees, filter wash, and other wine residues may also

be accumulated on bonded wine premises for use as distilling material. (Sec. 201, Pub.

L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1380, as amended, 1381, as amended, 1382, as amended (26

U.S.C. 5361, 5373))\"
Also from Rusty at the Ellensburg Distillery in Washington; \"one may add sugar, or chaptalise, if the intended final product is apple wine. The rule against doing so, if one intends to distill it into eau-de-vie and label it as apple brandy, is because the final distillate would be a combination of brandy and rum, since sugar was added. There is still a way to bottle this product, as in \"spirit of apple cider\" but you would not be permitted to call it brandy. Isn\'t Calvados a great example for making fine apple brandy? No chaptalisation, no hydration, no acidulation and a minimum of three years in the barrel.\"
Sorry...I tend to ramble on....but MAN I love this hobby! LOL!