Do I know what I'm doing????????

[Icefever]

I've spent time reading a load of older posts, I not sure if I know less now than when I started.. but here I go....

When I built my brewery I bought a 80 liter Thermopot (mashtun)and 2 x 100 liter SS pots..now I have one of the 100 lts pots spare.



Today while looking about on the tinternet I found this on youtube...Here What do you guys think?? would it work?? Now I know I can get hold of an old copper hot water tank off a mate who's a plumber for scrap.... I have a site for food grade silicone edging strip to seal the top to the pot...Here so if that gets the go ahead !! that's part the job done.

So now I need to get my head around what goes onto the body of the boiler.
We both like a neutral so that means a reflux column is the way to go. I've found a seller on ebay who does up to 76mm copper pipe..Here..I'm thinking maybe go for 50mm for the column???

As I only have 30liter buckets to ferment, if I did 2 at the same time and mixed that would give me 50/55 liter to do a run...

The SS pot is already fitted with 2 elements so I have the means to bring to a boil a wash straight away.



So now it's just getting the bits & bobs I need to finish the column, a tri-clamp to fit it all together????????? so give it to me straight am I so far up..



but I'll be ok they sell the paddles.

[Myles]

I can't see the utube (blocked domain on the network!!!) However, in general, if you can seal the lid to the pot OK.

You might be ripped off for the copper tube though.(what wall thickness is it?)
Just go to JTM plumbing instead http://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/copper-pipe-174.html. You can buy either standard 3m lengths or 1.5m (half) lengths. Don't worry about buying a 1.5m length as you will be surprised how fast you use it for other components, condenser shells etc.

OH the price. 1.5m of 76mm tube - 46.18 inc vat.

For a 100 litre boiler you should e looking at a 76mm column with 5kW to 6kW heating (plus the supply circuit to go with it). If you use SPP then the 1m length is fine, but if you go for scrubbers/mesh/pumice then you probably need a longer length.

[YHB]

I only have a 25 litre boiler with a 2" column. Even with this "small" boiler the reflux spirit runs can become a tedious endurance event. With your boiler a larger column will be big advantage.

I have just realised that I have paraphrased Myles answer, sorry about that.

[Almanac]

+1 on what Myles and YHB said about size...it does matter? I retired my 2" VM last year because I really have no use for it but the 2" did prove too small to be practical. The spirit runs seemed to take forever. Talk about watching the grass grow!

AM

[Myles]

Do think about size carefully though when considering reflux columns. These seem to be average figures for reflux columns taken from other sites. These are for power levels DURING the run, you need to add in extra for warm up if you wish to reduce the warm up times.

2" 1.5 kW
3" 2.5 to 3.8 kW
4" 4.5 to 5 kW
5" 5 to 6 kW
6" 9 to 11 kW
8" 22 to 27 kW

5" are few and far between at the moment. I am building one myself and I expect this to become the BIGGEST practical size for the home distiller. I think a 3" SPP column will eventually be a standard vodka rig for home use.

Once you hit 6 kW you then start introducing all sorts of other problems if you are going down the electric route. Ideally you need dedicated circuits with heavy wiring for 6 kW options. For my own boiler I use two 3 kW elements and run them with 2 separate circuits because I did not wish to re-wire the still room.

[Icefever]

Ok guys...so I go with the big pipe..(bigger is better), no problem.

Myles...." If you use SPP then the 1m length is fine, but if you go for scrubbers/mesh/pumice then you probably need a longer length."

now bear with me, ..can you break down this info. I think I know what you mean, I'm just making sure ...scrubbers/mesh are what you pack into the column to get reflux...but what's SPP???

Thanks for the link to JTM plumbing.

[Icefever]

Ok Myles I've read up on SPP..Here. and found some Here so that's a start.

As for the KWs on the heating elements I'll have to check when I get home. I don't have any problem getting around 35 liters of wort to a boil, about 20/25 mins. I think they are about 1.6 kw maybe 1.8 kw can't remember, but I can easy add another element if I have too, there's plenty of room in a 100 liter pot.

I already run 2 separate circuits when the brew house is running.

[John51]

Talking about watching the grass grow...

I've got a similar large SS stockpot and my mind turns to having a non plastic amazingstill. Lovely product but production is about a litre a week.

[Myles]

Icefever, I won't disagree with Odin as a source for SPP because he is who I use myself.

If you use SPP it is possible to get the same sort of performance from the column as you would get from a column 3x taller packed with stainless scrubbers instead. SPP is both far more efficient and can also (if you wish) run at higher power levels, than you can with another packing.

However, it is NOT a universal solution. In my opinion SPP does 1 job very well indeed. It creates neutral/azeotrope @ 95% or slightly higher. If you want vodka then this will work.
On the other hand if you want a column to produce white rum or grappa or clear fruit brandy (instead of using a pot still) then I would NOT use SPP. Instead I would use another column that is shorter than recommended, and is packed with something else and take product at 90 to 94% dependent on the recipe and taste buds.

Once you set up a column with SPP it is difficult to get it to produce anything EXCEPT neutral.

[Capt-Cudellez]

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On the other hand if you want a column to produce white rum or grappa or clear fruit brandy (instead of using a pot still) then I would NOT use SPP. Instead I would use another column that is shorter than recommended, and is packed with something else and take product at 90 to 94% dependent on the recipe and taste buds.

Once you set up a column with SPP it is difficult to get it to produce anything EXCEPT neutral.

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I completely agree, I ran for white rum on my stumpy VM couldn't shift it off azeotrope, I'm back using scrubbers.

[Myles]

I like SPP, but for me it is a specialist tool. I think in a few years if you ask any home distiller what the standard tool is for producing vodka you will get this answer.

An electric keg with a 1m x 76mm column packed with SPP.

For flavoured product on the reflux column you need a less efficient column. That means shorter than the recommended guidelines of 24x to 30x column diameters, because those are aimed at neutral.

For rum you should try taking it off between 93% and 94%. For whisky it is worth noting that no commercial producer goes higher than 94%.

93 to 94 is a good starting point for all flavoured products on the packed column.

[Icefever]

Ok guys.
I'm think I'm a lot closer to what I want to build..so it's time to start buying the bits..but I still need your input. I've found this design looks just the type to start with as my first build.

For a 100 litre boiler you should e looking at a 76mm column with 5kW to 6kW heating (plus the supply circuit to go with it). If you use SPP then the 1m length is fine, but if you go for scrubbers/mesh/pumice then you probably need a longer length.

As I already have the 100 liter pot going spare that's what I'll use. So I'm going with the 76mm column from JTM, now I've spent time surfing the net for ways of connecting the pipe to the lid of the boiler...SS triclamp, copper, So that's the first hurdel, any ideas??.

[Almanac]

That will depend on the lid, strength, shape etc

I absolutely agree with the 76mm column but a 100lt boiler is very big space to fill with wash.

I make 2x25lt washes per two week cycle and my 50lt boiler strips them in 6 hours then the Low Wines are stored in a SS storage keg. It takes 75lt of wash to produce 40lt of low wines for a Spirit run which I do once a month I think with a 100lt boiler the actual handling of the volume of wash and low wines it will process is going to require some innovation on your part.

I will watch with interest and help any way I can

AM

[Capt-Cudellez]

I'm on my phone icefever, and cant see that pic properly. A 3" column is a heavy bit of kit to be held on a lid with bulldog clips.
. A tall column can act like a big leaver if you knock it (or even just from column oscillation from the mash boiling). I'd be considering a more substantial mechanical solution

[Icefever]

OK..that's the first hurdel to stumble at....back to square one.

That will depend on the lid, strength, shape etc
I absolutely agree with the 76mm column but a 100lt boiler is very big space to fill with wash.

I think I knew in my own mind that the 100 ltr pot was a little OTT. So I've been looking around for a 50 ltr SS pot.

I've asked a mate who's a plumber for an old hot water copper tank so that I can have a go at making a cone to fit a pot.

A 3" column is a heavy bit of kit to be held on a lid with bulldog clips. A tall column can act like a big leaver if you knock it (or even just from column oscillation from the mash boiling). I'd be considering a more substantial mechanical solution

Must admit the bulldogs are a bit dodgy.. If I do make the top I could brace it from the cone, much like YHB did.

BJ