Will a newbie be impressed with the T500?

[Damo]

HI All,

I am new to the forum, this is my first post. I don't yet own a still and have been looking at buying a T500 here in New Zealand. I have been a beer brewer for years and enjoyed that a lot but these days I rarely drink beer or wine and have started drinking spirits more. I thought I'd look into this hobby.
I watched the youtube videos of how to use the T500 which were a great insight and I thought 'brilliant, I'll go for it!' But, then on finding this forum and reading some posts I realise there is much more to it than simply following the instructions from the manufacturer.
So, my question is, will a regular spirits drinker be impressed with the results if just initially following the guidelines and not worrying about what is heads, tails and hearts?
How would these first runs compare with the commercial spirits I buy?
Are some spirits better than others in this respect, eg. are the whiskeys too basic to compare to good store bought ones, do the rums come up best or worst etc..?

I guess this is like any hobby and the more involved you get, the better the results but I just want to know what the first impressions would be like.
My experience of home brewed spirits in the past has been very mixed (although I can't really remember how good the nicer stuff was, being so long ago).

Cheers,
Damo.

[MrCat]

I got one of the first T500s in the UK after 18 months with a Still Spirits Super Reflux and it is a fantastic bit of kit. It does have a few limitations (which we'll come onto later) but to me it is worth the cash.

Most people talking on the forums are experienced users, have read a lot, have tried a lot, made mistakes, found what works for them, they are speaking from experience and making great suggestions/recommendations.

But if you are starting out then it can all be very very confusing and there is a lot of contradictary information out there.

But, most of us here stared with a beginner still (be it a SS reflux, an air still, a T500 etc etc), started with turbo yeasts, used carbon in the wash, used carbon filtering for the spirit etc etc. And your first run is an awesome thing. To see something you have made from a few packets of yeast, sugar and water produce clear spirit is incredible.

And it's not a bad end product. You can flavour with the various essences and end up with some really nice tasting hangover free spirit. On the flavouring thread there is a sticky about what we have found with the flavourings http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78 which can point you in the right direction.

Can you do better? Of course you can - but in my opinion there are so many permutations around what you can do that if you actually started wiht nothing, built your own still, used a recipe you found on the internet, took cuts etc on your first run then it might be too much to soon.

If you get a T500 you won't be disappointed but it will also not be the best that you can do. But leave the best you can do for a year or so down the line as what you start with can be pretty dam good !

Even if you are producing a neutral then their are recipes for flavouring using BBQ chunks on this site that will taste really good (I've just followed one and made a very nice bourbon that I'm sipping now), or there is strawberry spirit, or rum and raisin etc etc

I'm now making a VM column to fit my T500 boiler, I've got a pot head made by YHB for my T500 boiler so it's a good base for ongoing development.

You could do a lot worse than starting with a T500.

The only real limitations with a T500 though are you can only produce neutral spirits and the water control can be tricky but if you have a stable water supply then it's normally ok.

[Damo]

Thanks for the informative response. Without getting into specific questions yet and staying on topic, if I think back over the years I recall a lot of beer brewers who said to me 'oh my beers is fantastic, much better than that commercial rubbish' yet when you tasted it, it clearly wasn't. And I am a beer brewer who likes home brew yet a lot of brewers beer is very 'home brewy'.
So, are spirits like that? Do home made spirits (made simply according the the instructions) taste home made or are they clean and smooth and delicious like commercial spirits?

Cheers,
Damo.

[MrCat]

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Do home made spirits (made simply according the the instructions) taste home made or are they clean and smooth and delicious like commercial spirits?

Cheers,
Damo.

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Putting it bluntly in the majority of cases home made spirits made using the basic instructions flavoured with essences do not taste exactly like the spirits they are meant to replicate.

It doesn't mean they are a million miles away from the taste they are meant to be, they probably won't be bad tasting by any stretch of the imagination but for example you aren't going to be able to exactly replicate a 12 year old single malt with an essence are you?

But are they clean and smooth and delicious ? Yes. They are.

For some strange reason I'm going to focus on whisky (it's strange as I don't drink whisky). From the second batch of spirit I made in my SS reflux, following the instructions, filtering with a Z-filter, and flavouring with a whisky essence I gave the resulting drink to two whisky drinking friends and they both said it was better than blended whisky. I tried a few different essences on them and each one was received favourably. I can only say they seemed happy with it and asked for more.

Then followed a journey into essenced rums (the best essence for the job was suggested on this board) which started me off as a rum drinker - prior to that I'd not drunk any rum. And since then I've drunk a lot of different rums. Was the first stuff I made better than some commercial stuff. Hell yes!! I can put money on you following the instructions and making an essenced rum that tastes better than at least three rums that I have bottles of on my shelf.

If you want a cheap drink then yep - follow the instructions and you'll get a nice drink.

You haven't said what spirit you would want to replicate. Give us an idea and someone here will have probably made it and will be able to say how succesful it was.

Or read through the link in my last post - the majority of those will be made by following the instructions

[Damo]

Hi,

It's not that I want to replicate any spirits. it is just that if I have a whiskey drinker come over I want to pour him something he won't turn his nose up at. The same goes for any other kind of drinker and spirit. I just want to know that people won't taste it and be put off, myself either.

Cheers,
Damo.

[The_Angels_Share]

Had mine a couple of weeks or so now and I'm over the moon with the results so far. Anyone I've allowed to sample has also been impressed that it's home brew.

[Admiral Toad]

Hi mate and welcome
I've learnt a hell of a lot over the months mainly from this forum and now heading off to try yet more different ideas.
I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Cat the the T500 is a very decent piece of kit.
A couple of things that I now do could make your results even better from the off
Firstly get a good filter such as the essencia this makes a huge difference
Secondly consider double distilling by which I mean do 2 runs and collect the results (add some water to dilute to 50%for safe storage)
Then put both lots in the still,dilute to about 30 % (should fill the boiler just right) and run again.the result is even better and when filtered as well makes a very good vodka or a starting point for flavours.
I find the SS classic range is best the blue jewel gin is very good for example and the single malt is good too
I'm sure you won't be disappointed

[alan]

Hi Damo I bought mine last year iv done about 30 runs its a nice bit a kit I'm running a sweet feed wash through it right now. iv run a few rum washes that turned out ok,I use more molasses than i would do if i was potstillin so the flavour carries over
alan

[Capt-Cudellez]

I believe it's easier to make good home made spirits, but if you follow the instructions with the T500, you will end up with gut rot spirit that is no better than a badly brewed beer.
You can make some very good spirits with the T500 - but it is a one trick pony, that produces high proof ethanol that lends its self to being filtered neutral, then flavoured.
If your a fan of neat 10yo Rum or Scotch, then the flavourings will seem a little off, but you can then age this on wood, and make it better, you will have tasted much much worse off the self.
If you drink your drinks with a mixer, then the results will be more difficult to distinguish from the store bought stuff. (or so I think)

If you decide to go the authentic route, AG whisky, pot stilled rum, then this is much much more difficult to get good results from the off, I'm glad I started with a T500, as I doubt I would have stuck with it if I had produced some of the rubbish I made trying to do things more authentically. I now think I can produce some products that are now miles better than the essences I started with, but there are also a few things that I've done that are no where near as good.

[Damo]

Hi all,

Once again, thanks for your comments.

So, I am getting a little confused now. The T500 being a 'one trick pony' for instance. I understand that a pot still is used for brewing spirits from scratch. I have also seen the pot still heads on the internet that fit a T500. When I have learnt a bit and want to progress, can I not just get one of these or have one made for my T500 and brew from scratch like that?

Cheers,
Damo.

[MrCat]

The T500 column produces neutral largely flavourless spirits so if you want the spirit to taste of something other than nothing you have to add an essence or put the neutral on oak etc etc. The T500 will produce 94%+ ethanol. As ethanol does not taste of anything there can only be 6% flavour carried over from the wash.

A pot still allows you to carry over some taste from the wash as a by product of not producing the same high ABV or purity. For instance today on a run with my pot head on my T500 boiler I was getting 80% ABV at most which means that 20% of the flavours in the wash were being carried over to my final spirit. As the run progresses the ethanol content of the wash is depleted so the amount of ethanol in the spirits falls and more and more flavour is carried over from the wash.

So - higher ABV = less flavour. Lower ABV = more flavour.

Now, you can make your wash a number of ways. You can aim for neutral - yeast, nutrients, sugar and water. Or Rum - molasses, sugar, yeast, nutrients, water. Or whisky (errr someone will come back with how you do that) etc etc. But if you distil the wash in a column (such as the T500) then you will get less flavour from your wash than if you did it in a pot still.

This is a generalisation as some tastes do carry over even in that 6%. The taste of molasses is pretty hard to get rid of and does carry over into 90% + spirits even after triple distilling.

And yes you can get a pot head for the T500 boiler or you could even make one once you are ready

[Damo]

Awesome, so it sounds like with a pot head the T500 will do just about anything I want. I will start with standard brews and essences but would love to produce my own whiskey, bourbon and rum when I am ready.
I'm keen to go shopping and get started now but I just have to convince SWMBO. She's not a spirit drinker so I might have to mix her a few cool cocktails to try and convince her!

Cheers,
Damo.

[Capt-Cudellez]

Hey Damo, how much room do you have to set up in? The T500 boiler is 30L, and that is a bit on the small side for pot stilling - but doable if space is at a premium.
Being in NZ has its advantage that you don't have to hide the still away from prying eyes. If you have the space a 50L beer keg is all the boiler you'll need for a good while.
Have you checked out the Aussie forum, there are a few still builders on your side of the world that would be able to build you a decent still. No idea of the costs, but if may be comparable to buying an off the shelf unit.

Not trying to put you off the T500, but you have some options.

[Admiral Toad]

And remember mate if you go the T500 route and dont fancy making pothead yourself SS make one I believe.
And as the C'ptn says the standard T500 is a one trick pony BUT some of the essences released recently are really so much better than the original 'top shelf' range

[John51]

This thread has answered a lot of my questions too.

Is this a fair summary?:

For making neutral spirit with the least hassle, the t500 is hard to beat.

For making spirits that rival (or beat) the top commercial brands, there are better choices than the t500.