Time to be nervous? Maybe not...

[Benoit]

http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2015/0 ... e-alcohol/

Firstly apologies if this is old news here, it is an article from February!
Considering this is supposed to be a crack down, going from 1 seizure to 12 still doesn't seem like the gooberment are trying too hard?! Whilst it's a significant increase percentage wise & the list of recorded premises did include "private homes", it would seem the idiots doing this for profit at the cost of people's health are the primary targets and rightly so!
Although this is a sobering reminder to keep your hobby under your hat, I can't help but feel that there is a definite shift in culture that will hopefully lead to some changes in the law? Immigration is bringing in lots of people where distillation was legal in their home countries and while I'm certain the Daily Mail will make a big deal of it, surely these people come with some skill in the process due to its tradition?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-31148413 The video in this shows some pretty desperate people using equipment many may find very familiar, for them I guess 'cuts' are what stupid people do that results in throwing away alcohol with no consideration for what else it may contain. They are also doing it to feed an addiction which will always be frowned upon & used to bring our hobby into disrepute but I think I prefer it to people stealing handbags for cash or shoplifting spirits!
What are your thoughts? Does the increased numbers make you nervous & do you think we will ever see a personal consumption law passed in the UK?
http://thewhiskytastingclub.co.uk/Blogs ... ery-rules/ This was from 2012 & seemed to offer some hope for the more committed enthusiast to "go legal", has anything changed?

Benoit

[packapoo]

These kinds of 'distilling' operations go on all around the world, especially but not solely, in countries where distilling is not permitted by law or on religious grounds.
This is the reason why it's necessary for followers of distilling forums have to hide their identity, so, you should be concerned.

For mine I would be extremely careful of putting out there how much I am producing because truly, some of the claims I see - not by any means limited to this site - fall within the 'HEY-LOOK-AT-ME' category.

On another note, while it may go unreported in your world, in mine it is scary to read of this person or that who goes for what is probably the holiday of their lifetime to places like Bali or Indonesian islands to never come home again, in the living form.
A night out, exotic drinks and death from bootleg alcohol being served from big name brand bottles......All too frequent.

[Benoit]

Packa it's legal to distill in NZ is it not? Do you see a lot of issues in the news at home or is it always holiday islands?
I guess for me I kinda see home distilling with a similar view to drugs, if you can afford it & aren't hurting anyone but yourself then it should be up to you. Similarly to me, your reference point is people losing more than their short term memory because of someone trying to make a quick buck, most of the people here frown upon commercial products because they leave a little too much heads or tails in to give extra yield so I think that makes us at the opposite end of the spectrum; after quality not quantity. Then there's the downright stupid who make poison from antifreeze & IPA, these people are frauds & exist in any counterfeit operation regardless of the product. I think the answer comes in education, the law should exist to protect the masses but if one man chooses to go & educate himself in a way to produce something that he wishes to consume then that should be ok too.
There was a petition online to get the law looked at in the uk in 2012, it got 5 signatures...maybe people are worried to poke their head above the trench?!

Benoit

[packapoo]

It is legal here. The caveat tho' is for own consumption. Selling is well frowned upon - there is the occasional court action reported. Guessing only, it wouldn't amount to one per year.....

FWIW I saw some years back, when holidaying back in country from overseas, at a bar now quite close to where I reside, a range of spirits being poured. Brands I'd not heard of previously nor seen since and which from label inspection I took to be produced by an enterprising local. (I had a background in wholesale liquor distribution and that is why it sparked my interest.)

There is also the odd instance where home distilled alcohol that is unsafe (antifreeze/IPA) has been discovered. Even rarer I'd guess... Beats me why, other then greed, one would bother when you can obtain decent ingredients and knock out a reasonable product.
I can't recall any of these ending in death or as near as, not to say I've got that right tho'.

I dare say your heads above comment would be spot on and for pretty good reason.

[Easydrinker]

This is My opinion on this topic.

Anyone seeking to profit by selling illicitly distilled products deserves prosecution,no matter the quality.
(Sorry RJ,your circumstances,I know,are slightly different,and here,I am really speaking of the UK and HMRC)

The articles mentioned above,and others linked to from them,refer to "Brand copyright",addition of poisonous additives and organised gangs.

This is where UK customs and excise are expending energy.
Should they ever get on top of that,then we will logically be next.
They know we are here.
They know what we are doing.
I believe that if you are a signed up member of this or any other forum,then they know who you are.
Or have the ability to find out.

The reasons that we are not high on their agenda,I think are many.
They may include such as:
The small amount of revenue we,as individual producers and consumers,deprive them of is petty,and hard to chase down.If they seize a shipping container of fake cigarettes or a couple of thousand litres of fake vodka,then the market will take the real product to fill the void,along with a LOT of revenue.
And possibly some life saving along the way.IMHO these guys are acting more as another police force than revenue collectors.
We are fairly numerous,maybe there is indeed a little "turning a blind eye" to home production.At least we try to keep each other safe and alive,and long term payers of other revenues.

Dream up more of your own,I may be living in La La Land!

I believe that there is much merit in keeping a low profile in your home environs,online you are a target.
It will be the nosy neighbour that will probably cause you trouble,calling the boys in blue to an operating airstill,or such,and from there,it will all go tragically wrong.


Having said all that,I expect someone from a distilling forum to face prosecution
in the UK sometime soon.An example will be made. I do hope that on this point that I am proved wrong.

I expect it to be me .

Robert.

[packapoo]

Only point I can raise there Robert is I hope your last line never proves correct.

[Frank]

In Australia....the latest government body to brazenly launch a 'scare campaign' regarding home distilling (you know the mantra....it is illegal, it is harmful, you WILL be caught.....) is the Australian Taxation Office!!!!
True story, its not the federal cops, nor the health services folk, but the taxman!
(says a lot, really)

[GrunthosTheFlatulent]

I find it bizarre that here in the UK you cannot buy any kind of device capable of receiving TV programmes without identity checks and records being kept, but anyone can walk into a home brew shop and buy a still with no questions asked.

My home brew shop owner is required to display a notice to the effect that you shouldn't use these devices in the home for producing strong drink, but then has bottles of home made spirits on the counter for customers to sample and see what they could make in their own homes. And he knows he has sold stills to police officers.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that operating an unlicenced still in the UK is a civil matter rather than a criminal offence and carries a penalty of confiscation/destruction of equipment and a £250 fine or unpaid duty (whichever is higher). Let's face it, using something like an airstill according to the Best Practice Guide on here, it takes around 12 hours to produce 3 bottles of 40%, so I don't think we're much of a problem.

I understand that HMRC periodically call upon the few importers and distributors of this equipment and associated products, but as long as the VAT returns are in order and no-one has been buying hundreds of bottles of the same flavouring essences then they will happily go away again for a few months. If anybody has been bulk buying then they will take an interest and that person is likely to get their collar felt for the more serious offence of counterfeiting, as well they should.

Ironically, since I have been dabbling with making my own spirits and liqueurs (strictly for my own consumption) and have taken the trouble of throwing away the manufacturer's instructions and joining a forum such as this to see if there was a better method, by learning to recognise heads and tails I find I am spending more on commercial spirits than I ever did before, because I can no longer drink cheap ‘cooking whisky’ however much I drown it with dry ginger, and my tastes have gone up market.

[RumJohn]

@EasyD: You wrote-

Anyone seeking to profit by selling illicitly distilled products deserves prosecution,no matter the quality.
(Sorry RJ,your circumstances,I know,are slightly different,and here,I am really speaking of the UK and HMRC.


You are entitled to your opinion, but the above statement by you is idiotic. I am surprised you would even consider posting it on a site such as this.

[Easydrinker]

@ RJ
Thanks for that, maybe you are missing my point.
This site has principally a UK based user base where home distillation is illicit.
Sure we have international members,some from countries where home distillation is legal.
This is not a site to promote the sale of home distilled product.
I am fully aware of your efforts to get your business going in China, you posted details of the catch 22 type situation long ago, hence my stating that in your case things were different.
In the UK we do not yet have the right to home distill for own consumption,and so I stand by my statement "Anyone seeking to profit by selling illicitly distilled products deserves prosecution,no matter the quality."
You may see things differently from Hainan.

Robert.

[RumJohn]

@ EasyD - I see now what you mean. Different levels of illegal and some are acceptable. Brilliant.

[Admiral Toad]

Had to chuckle having read this post then seeing a guys T shirt at a gig on the weekend that read

'GCHQ. Always listening to our customers '

[Mash]

LOL really

[Easydrinker]

Had to chuckle having read this post then seeing a guys T shirt at a gig on the weekend that read

'GCHQ. Always listening to our customers '

Thanks AT, I was struggling for a friends birthday gift, I may get one of these T shirts printed up, fairly certain it will be a hit.

Robert.

[Mash]

already ordered on ebay..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Government-Al ... 1Zv_54LRwg