Could you advise a newbie?

[bikebimmonds]

Hello all,
Firstly i feel i should say thank you to everyone who has contributed on this site. I have been using it for a while but as a guest and it's been extremely useful. With this info, a 5L presure cooker and some microbore copper tubing I made myself a small potstill. Ive run it a few times now and it's just too small to be practical.
So...
Would you be able to advise me on a new setup?

Boiler.
26L Swan cygnet job (2.5kw), I need a power controller still if anyone has one to sell, if not are there any specific recommendations? I've looked into building my own but I'm a bit scared of electrocuting myself (again!?!)

Potstill head.
500mm, 54mm copper column, and a
800mm long 15mm inner 20mm outer leibig.

the leibig would point downwards at about 45' but there wouldn't be much of a lye arm. would that be a problem?
Was planning on using water straight from the tap. I'm not on a meter and pumps are generally unreliable in my (limited) experience..

Reflux Head
Was gonna make a 2" Boka, about 1200mm high with digi thermometer (cheap ebay one) and ss scrubbers for packing, this is so fantastically well documented that ive been able to research most of my problems on here and HD forums.
concerned about winding dual coil, well, concerned the Boka build in general but i guess i'll learn from my many mistakes!

Overall
The heads will be interchangable by a threaded endfitting on the columns.
http://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/end-feed-f ... e-6086.htm

I was planning on getting all the copper supplies from JTMplumbing.co.uk, seems cheap compared to owt else i've seen around.. too cheap maybe

I rekon £100 of parts for both heads. sound about right?

last thing, i was thinking of re-enforcing the lid of the swan urn with a circle of ply, just to make it more ridgid. gotta take a bit of weight.

Sorry this i'snt very specific but im just checking myself before spending a lot of money!

Thanks again to all the skilled folk down here..

Ta,
BB

[Easydrinker]

Hi,
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1001&p=7821&hilit=power+controller#p7791

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-KYOTTO-AC ... 20b9aba410

These two should help with the controller.

JTM are good for supplies,but if you order a single length of pipe,they simply stick an address label on it,and it may have changed shape due the lack of care by the courier.

Your pot sounds workable,I know little of reflux stills,so nothing to offer there.
The boiler should manage the weight of the column,as long as you have a secure method of fixing lid to boiler,and don't forget you will need a gasket.
HTH,and welcome to the forum.
Using the search box top right of the page will usually find the answers to any questions.

Robert.

[bikebimmonds]

Thanks Easydrinker,
The link to the controller build looks ace, dont know how i missed it before. I've ordered the relay and I'll have some fun building it.
Also cheers about the packaging (opf lack of) from JTM, I'll be getting a few lengths at the same time so I'll see if they can pack it up nicely for me!

My main concern with the pot was that the leibig will knock down all the vapour when stripping, if its in the right ballpark i'm sure i can make it work.

thanks again and i'll try to let you know how i get on..

BB

[Almanac]

Are you sure you need to build both heads? I built both and quickly discovered that, for the products I want to make, I only need a pot head so my VM reflux head has been decommissioned and retired from service.

A lot of people seem to like the boka design but from the point of view of build simplicity a straight VM is much less complicated to make and highly efficient too.

The liebig at a shallow angle is effectively taking the place of the lyne arm so that will work with the pot head.

The coil is not all that difficult. I know I posted a pdf document giving details how to do it quite easily. If you can't find it PM me and I'll dig it out for you.

Finally, from me, Robert's link to the power controller build by YHB is definitely the way to go. That's how I built mine. The parts can be bought from the other link Robert posted or sourcingmap.com

AM

[bikebimmonds]

thanks for the responces,
I have ordered and recieved the varfiable relay, and ill wire it when i have some time. thanks for the links

I think ill follow your advice about having two heads, keepin it simple sounds like a good idea and i can well imagine myself ending up having a bunch of parts that end up sittin in the corner collecting dust.
im gonna go for aidenmacks design for his pot still some minor alterations to use the swan tea urn as opposed to a keg. havent found an ideal solution for attatching to the lid of the urn, i dont really want to get into soldering SS so may well use a brass compression fitting, pickled, of course, unless anyone can guide me to a better solution.

ill let you know how i get on with the relay and eventually with the pot head when i have the funds for the copper!

thanks again

[Easydrinker]

You can't solder copper to Stainless,I suggest you stick with the brass compression,that's what I did.Cheap,easy and it works.Making the hole in the lid can be fun though.
Check out the impressive stills that Myles builds,he seems to love the effect of copper against brass.
I don't know what your urn looks like,if it has handles,you can fabricate something to clamp the lid down quite easily,mine has a disc of ply and a couple of hardwood pieces,some SS threaded rod and nuts and washers.
Or clad the whole thing in timber and produce something like YHB did.
You will need a gasket,cut it from a sheet of silicon maybe.
I opted to extrude my own from a tube of HA6 aquarium silicon;If it doesn't kill guppies etc,it shouldn't kill me!
Every food grade silicon I looked at included fungicide.I checked out aquarium silicon specs,and settled on this one.I put some into some 80% spirit and watched it for a month.It came out as it went in.Good enough for me.Make your own decision.
I hope all the above helps,
Robert.

[YHB]

so may well use a brass compression fitting, pickled, of course, unless anyone can guide me to a better solution

------------------------
BB,
Large compression fittings are a pig to seal, you will need access to some very long wrenches, or be prepared to solder them on.

If you are using JTM plumbing you may want to consider

One Of These

http://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/end-feed-f ... r-6087.htm

and two of these

http://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/compressio ... -10596.htm

[John51]

There was a thread on HD about pickled v non pickled brass fittings, both tested for lead content of finished product.

Surprisingly, the product from non pickled fittings had the lowest lead content although both were well within regs.

[bikebimmonds]

@Easydrinker - the lid has a twist locking mechanism to hold the lid on, i presume originally to reduce spillage in case of knocking it over. the lid its self drops about 20mm into the body of the urn. I was thinking of just using ptfe tape at first to pack out the small air gap running up between the body and the rid rim.
photo of lid - http://postimg.org/image/jmqquswmv (you can see stillsmart.co.uk in the reflection!)

@yhb - I had thought if the same process using the parts from jtm. did you use a seal ring between the two nuts? again ptfe tape seems like a cheapo solution. also, I'm asuming each nut goes on each side of the lid, posibly a silly question.

As for removing the simmer and safety cut off from the boiler, i was planning on bypassing and removing everything except the switch and the element. ending up with a very basic unprotected circuit that goes
[Mains +ve]-switch-[element]-[Mains -ve] i guess the element is wired like this http://postimg.org/image/efu09hyf7
the small, illegible, text says 'does the current flow clockwise round the outer ring then anticlockwise back round the inner'
Is this safe? i will be using a variable relay on the mains cable, hard wired so some unwitting person cant plug the unprotected urn into the wall!!

if anyone is interested this is the varous thermo-switches labelled,so far as i can work out
http://postimg.org/image/90gougwtz

I'm struggling to get my heaad round quite how the switches work.. if i keep staring at it it will all come together im sure!

Again thanks for all the responses, its making this build much less of a dodgy bodge job than it would have been!

[Easydrinker]

Mate,I am having to read between your words a little to make sense.
I don't wish to sound patronising,forgive me if that is how it comes across.
Great that you have a twist lock lid.You are spending a few pounds on this kit,I advise not trying to save too many pennies on a lasting gasket.
PTFE may work,personally,I would not want to re-wrap every use,as you would need to,possibly several rolls.me thinks.
Yes the link YHB provided would need a nut inside and outside,PTFE would provide a thread sealer/friction reducer to enable tighter closure,but myself I would opt for a silicon washer or sealant.
Regarding the electrics.
I would,and did cut out all controls on the boiler;it is on or off depending upon its connection or lack of to power,all control comes from the power regulator.If you suspect some other person may stumble across it (minus the top,which would be a give-away) and try to use it as a normal boiler,simply write on it in permanent marker a suitable message.
If you have any doubt about the electrics,then do come back here,post some pics,and someone will help you out,we would hate to see a new member go up in smoke.
Robert

[YHB]

@yhb - I had thought if the same process using the parts from jtm. did you use a seal ring between the two nuts? again ptfe tape seems like a cheapo solution. also, I'm asuming each nut goes on each side of the lid, posibly a silly question.

I have not used this method myself, it is far too easy for me, I like to make things much harder. Translated this means that I did not find these fittings until after I built my boiler, but if I had I would have used them. If I was making a connection now I would solder the top back-nut to the threaded connector, this would guarantee the external threads were sealed and all that would be required is an externally mounted gasket made from Silicone, EDPM or PTFE.

If you are concerned about the amount of brass in the connection ( I am not ) then the internal back-nut could be replaced with a stainless one, which are a standard, easily available item.

If you are concerned about the electrics do not touch them. Turn everything up to maximum and leave it, controlling the rate of boiling with your power controller. By the time the thermostat gets to a temperature that it will cut in at, you will not want to be collecting the output.

[Myles]

I came to this late and have tried to read it through a few times. I know you can use urns to make boilers but IMO it is much easier to just use a keg.

Does not need to be a 50 litre one, there are 30's and 20's too. However, they are already sealed pressure vessels which is a good thing. This is a 30 litre keg over a small electric hotplate.

Let's kill a few miss-conceptions.

1. You can solder copper to stainless - you just need the correct flux and solder.

2. Pickling is a dead duck. You don't need to do it anyway but if you don't trust the brass there are better ways to deal with the problem.

Big compression fittings ARE a problem, you DO need a big spanner to compress the olive. I use a 4 foot sash cramp. After the olive has been tightened though you can undo it wrap it with thread tape and make a good seal with a 2 foot wrench.

You can make good compression seals onto stainless steel just by using a copper washer on both sides of the stainless and tightening well. The edge of the stainless hole cuts into the copper washer to make a good seal.

It is easy to solder a compression fitting into stainless steel to seal both the screw thread and the compression joint. The strength is in the compression and the seal is in the solder.

Off course you can also braze a compression joint for a PERMANENT fit. Bit harder to do but here is the evidence. This is a 54mm compression tank connector brazed into a stainless stock pot. It will NEVER come off again!!

[Myles]

I didn't have the persistence YHB did in making his excellent urn based boiler, but if I was going to do this my gut reaction is that the twist lock will just complicate things and mess up your gasket.

It is not a seal - it just prevents the lid blowing off or rattling under full boil.

For our use you probably just need a straight compression between lid and pot so as not to distort whatever gasket material you use.

Lastly you need to think carefully about the lid. Some of them are not strong enough to hold weight and need to be reinforced. You may actually find it easier to buy a commercial grade stainless lid in the correct size - they are sold separately to the commercial grade stainless pots and are a much heavier weight stainless steel. Expensive though - cost the entire build up carefully because the keg might end up being a cheaper option.

[Easydrinker]

Myles,I admire your knowledge and skill at metalworking,and as always a well written and illustrated post.
For myself,the memories of trying to clean out the old keg still I built many years ago,made me plump for an urn.Simply lift the lid and use whatever it takes.
I know there is the possibility of including access ports to a keg,it would make the build more difficult though.
Having experienced one,I opted for the other,in the world of urn based stills my own is amateurish,people like YHB build works of art.
I am not trying to impress anyone,except with that which I produce.
I get your point about twist locking,that may mean some playing with gasket thickness,and may be a time consumer.
Regarding lid strength,my own is thin,and distorts downward not at all and carries a large column,more important I think is firm attachment of lid to boiler.

bike,I hope the points I've raised are helpful.
Robert.