SS Reflux mods - the ones we know work

[MrCat]

Requested by Phantom - if you have any questions or other mods for the SS reflux then please add them to this thread.

Perhaps you could start a thread about your tweaks and mod\'s to the Super Reflux Opus, because It seems not to matter what I do with mine, I still end up getting variable results from 82 to 90 %, and am starting to lose patience with it.......
It\'d be great to read about tweaks and mods that have made a "proper" difference.......

I basically copied the mods that Opus had made when I got my SS reflux and hit 93% first time and pretty much every time since.
In brief.
1. Power Controller and power meter

http://www.quasarelectronics.com/cr0008-230v-ac-motor-speed-controller-modules-375w-750w-1500w.htm

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=38343

Put the power controller in a small case with a flying mains lead - plug the power meter into the flying mains lead, plug the reflux into the power meter.

Run the power on full until the temp on the column hits 70 degrees and then drop the power to about 650 watts.
2.Stainless Steel pot scrubbers.

Get them from tescos at about £1.25 for 8. Remove the saddles etc from the column and repack it with three pot scrubbers.
3. Replace the thermometer with a digital one. Much easier to read - I got one with a temperature alarm so I could easily hear when I needed to turn the water on, reduce the power and finally to monitor the water cooling.
Those were the most important mods - since then I\'ve added
3. Split the water feed for the condenser and the reflux jacket.
http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/topic.php?id=354
This allows you finer control of the water - to be honest this is just a fussy point - it didn\'t add any % but did make life easier
4. Computer controlled water coolling
http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/topic.php?id=367&page=2#post-3695

This one is a less tangible benefit - it didn\'t add anything in max % but it did add it over the duration of the run and increased the usable yield. Also once it was programmed it was fit and forget.
5. Copper packing disks

http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/topic.php?id=360

I\'m using a couple of copper mesh disks between each of the pot scrubbers. Again no increase in % but gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling as it\'s meant to recduce the sulphates (etc) in the output.

From Homedistiller

The article is by Lew Bryson and it appears in the Volume 13, number 3 edition of Malt Advocate. The title of the article is Gleaming Guardian: Copper Stills aren\'t just a pretty face. Mr. Bryson interviewed several people for this article. Among them were Dr. Bill Lumsden from Glenmorangie, Chris Morris and Lincoln Henderson from Brown and Foreman, Barry Walsh from Irish Distillers, and Jim Murray author of Jim Murray\'s Whiskey Bible. All these guys must know what they are talking about since it is a fundemental part of their job.
Anyway, to preface the article and to acknowlege some of the speculation regarding my last post, the culprit of the corrosion and subsequent destruction of copper stills is sulfur. According to the article the sulfur comes from the grain itself, but it can also come from bacterial infection of the must prior to distillation.
As the must is distilled the sulphur compounds wind up in the spirit. The copper in the still causes the sulfur to combine with the copper and form copper sulfate. Aside from the copper sulfate there are other oils and fats from the grains and these combine with the copper sulfate as well to form a black compound. According to Lincoln Henderson, this black compound forms on the spout of the spirit safe and he reports at the Woodford Reserve Distillery it is quite heavy. The reason why Woodford Reserve has such a thick, heavy greasy black deposit is because they distill bourbon and not whiskey. As you know Bourbon has substantial amounts of corn, and with corn comes corn oil. Chris Morris refers to it as Grunge and it smells heavily of copper. It is also difficult to remove from your skin. According to Chris Morris the grunge starts at the top of the gooseneck, the lyne arm and all the way through the condensation structure. The tail end of the Grunge eventually comes to the spirits safe. Barry Walsh notes that this effect works the other way in copper mining, in this case fats and oils are introduced into a solution heavy in copper to extract the copper from the base solution.
According to Morris the Grunge is actually a polymer called ethyl carbonate and according to him when distillers refer to EC levels in their process it is ethyl carbonate that they are discussing, the copper essentually cleans this out of the spirit

[MrCat]

Shall we PM Jimmy and see if he can merge my post into your thread so we keep it toghether ?

[Jimmy]

Guys - no simple way to merge posts but I\'ve made a couple of new forums and rejigged some of the old posts to try and keep things together - hope that works for you!

[MrCat]

Fantastic
Thanks

[Opus 27]

Thanks from me to Jimmy.
Opus 27

[Phantom]

To start with, TVM for MrCat posting the mods like that.... Brilliant (and of course, to Jimmy for changing the forums round a bit to make it more logical and separate the topics like this).
Now, if I could ever reach 93% with mine, that would be great. I can see that the mods that would be the best improvement would be the power controller, the reflux packing and the splitting of the water flow.
Ok, so as yet, I haven't dabbled with the power controller yet, and I'll probably be sending off for the "Y" connectors and a couple of valves.....
I managed, when I first got my SS super reflux, to get a pack of the knitted copper mesh. My problem has been, that I can only guess how tightly to pack my reflux chamber. So far, I've used 2 pieces about 75cm long. The "sock" area is about 15cm when flat (the mesh is knitted into a tube anyway - I just cut a length off) so it's basically just scrunched up to make it thin enough to fit into the hole in the top off the reflux chamber and then packed in using the handle of a wooden spoon - and it's compacted down until it's at the level of the top of the reflux jacket.
Only once, have I managed to get the damn thing running, so that the spirit was coming out at 89%, normally it's about the 85/86%
As you can see (hopefully), my quandary is how densely packed does the copper mesh need to be ?
The power controller should help me, as it does seem that once the still is up to temperature, I can't get enough water through the reflux jacket (and logically that would apply to the condenser) to keep the temperature down. It will sit between 81 and 82 degree's (using my small probe with measuring head built in digital thermometer). So to be able to reduce the heaters output a little would be great..... I'm presuming that the 1500w power controller is the one to have/use
I wonder if the power controllers come already built into a box, with some sort of calibrated scale so we know how much power is getting through it i.e. there's a knob/switch with minimum/max positions marked so you know that half way will be in the 750W area ?? Or would I have to work that out myself (damn I haven't touched any electronics like that for 20 years and it's making my head spin just trying to remember it all.......)
As there's bound to be some heat in the water from the condenser to the reflux jacket, maybe it'd be enough to change the pipes around so that the inlet from the water supply goes to the reflux jacket first, and then into the condenser ?? Or am I talking out of my arse ??
I mean, if I could reach 93% from a first run of wash each time, it'd save me the cost of a T500 (when they're available) - still gonna have a try at building my own still though......
regards
the confused idiot.....

[MrCat]

IMHO I\'d say the power controller is probably the most important mod. If you can wire a plug then you can wire that power controller.
I had a little plastic potting box lying around that was the right size so I just drilled a couple of holes in it and fitted the controller in there. There is no graduated scale so that\'s why I got the power meter (I had one lying around). I just turn the control all the way clockwise - the meter shows 1300 watts and then when I hit 70 I turn the control anticlockwise until the power meter shows about 650 watts.
I think it works like this - by reducing the amount of energy you give the wash (by reducing the power) you reduce the amount of water in the vapour as water requires more energy to evapourate - so when the vapour hits your packing the packing has less work to do condensing the vapour. It also means you don\'t need as much water in the reflux jacket.
I managed to fit 4 pot scrubbers in the column and all it did was to reduce the rate of output, not increase the % so I think I\'m up near the maximum HETP I can get with this column. I wouldn\'t get too hung up about the packing - if you are using mesh (be it copper or SS) and it\'s nice and tightly packed but you can still blow through it and it is up to the level of the output pipe then it\'s as good as you are going to get.
Does that make sense ?

[Opus 27]

I go along with everything MrCat say\'s. The only thing I would add is the difference it made putting less wash in the boiler, I assume it\'s to do with the vapour space.

I used three pot scrubbers pressed them in until about 20mm below the outlet in the column. My power meter was a plug in job sold for measuring consumption at the plug socket. I paid about a tenner for it. You will probably find one on Amazon.
Opus 27

[Phantom]

Ok, at least I know what to look for now (apart from digging out some quite old radio and electronics books - if I still have them). I can make a start on sorting the bits out now.....
I'll report back how I get on...... though that may be a couple of weeks as I'm concentrating on just making wash and picking sloes ATM! (that link that Jimmy posted about "Sloe Brandy" sounds brilliant)...
p.s. Oh and I\'ll see about picking up a pack of pot scrubbers, then I should be able to make a judgement call on a comparable amount of the copper mesh (damn I wish I could find the link for it - though it\'s probably on the old PC).....

[bluecap]

The general rule I use when packing the condenser is if I can breathe through it comfortably, then so can the still when it’s running.

[Phantom]

The general rule I use when packing the condenser is if I can breathe through it comfortably, then so can the still when it’s running.

Hadn\'t thought of trying to measure it in that way, though surely you can still breath/blow through mesh that\'s packed quite tightly, yet is too tight and will cause too high a reflux ratio ?
I\'ve had mine where it\'s taken 12 or 14 hours to provide 1 litre of spirit at 85%, yet also had it so that it\'s given me 3 or 3.5 litres in 7 hours, but at 80/90% (from memory, the highest I\'ve managed has been either 89 or 91 % don\'t recall which). Hence wanting to try and get it to go higher if possible, without having to resort to getting a T500 when they\'re finally available here......

[jedm72]

I realise I am a newbie here - but my mate and I had serious issues with the cooling aspect for the reflux still.
I managed to solve it by putting a tap on the outflow from the \"hot\" output of the water cooling. What was essentially happening is a gas bubble was being produced within the cooling system and causing back pressure - stopping the cooling water from flowing correctly.
Seeing as different stills have different designs the cooling issue for others may be a different problem than the one we were having.
We went from 85-88% ABV - stuffing about with the water - to hitting 95% peak - but 93-94% consistently with the use of the tap on the hot outflow.
The outflow needs to retard the water just enough so that it is not possible for gas pockets to build up - or at least this appears to be the issue. So the outflow is regulating the pressure of the water within the cooling system.
I have it sorted now that when it is pissing out a stream of water and making a bit of steam - with no visible gaps within the clear cooling tubes - the temp runs up to 78 degrees and drip drip off it goes. The only issue we have is the POS tap we have is metal - and the bloody thing expands. So you have to fart around with a hot metal tap and swear alot if it goes wrong. Yes I have had singed hands a few times. It is a gate type of tap - big round wheel at the top - made of brass. I have got it sorted now that once I get the water trickling out when the thing is cold - once it heats up the tap expands and it \"sorts\" the right gap and it all runs smooth. Until someone farts about with the tap again.
Dumb ass ludite approach to making it work - but it does. Even with the tap stuffing around we still get low 90%\'s
So I thought I would put that in the mix for those who don\'t want to use computer controlled water management rocket science magic approach.
J

[MrCat]

I was reading up on reflux designs etc over at home distiller and spotted a drawing of a Liquid cooled reflux column which suggested adding the cooling water at the top of the reflux column rather than the bottom as per the SS instructions.
Homedistiller - and they didn\'t slag me off !!
I was told this was a bad idea as potentially an air bubble could develop in the reflux jacket unless there was a tap in the outlet water pipe.
It seems that Jed is confirming that a valve on the reflux output water is a good idea
Thanks Jed

[jedm72]

No probs MrCat.
I will admit we stuffed around big time trying to get that to work. First tried these povo plastic taps and they heated up and just let water through or went closed - one or the other I cannot remember. So I figured we needed a better tap and ended up getting the metal one - but my brain was asleep - I forgot metal gets hot
It is NOT perfect - but we have drawn a line inside the tap with texta to show where the valve has to be at the start. After it heats up it is normally ok. Unless it is a really hot day and then I get burnt fingers again stuffing about with the tap.
MKII version will be a trained monkey with asbestos gloves to fart around with the tap.
J

[Phantom]

Well, I\'ve got the still running in \"pot still mode\" again, to strip the second of my two batches of wash, and thought I\'d check out the links to order the taps, splitter/\"Y\" pieces, power controller etc.
Not sure about back pressure etc though, as I\'ve been running it \"normally\" with condenser output fed into the reflux input and reflux output to drain, so all of the flow goes through the reflux jacket, but I\'m certainly happy to give anything a try, as my aim is (was/still is) 90% plus, so if those minor mods will sort that out then that\'s totally brilliant......
I certainly wouldn\'t bother shelling out for a T500, unless it\'s not only about getting the 93/94%, but also about speeding things up, as it apparently will run a whole batch of wash in 3 to 4 hours...
Besides, the power controller, Y pieces, extra pipes and taps isn\'t likely to come to a fraction of the cost of a T500 so it\'s got to be worth trying.......
Oh, my previous efforts at modification (copper pipe, mesh filled column extender) is gonna have a new life. I\'m gonna cut it down a bit and convert it to a pot still head, with built in leibig condenser, then I can do stripping runs a lot quicker........