To insulate or not?

[buffalobob]

I've swapped my copper mesh packing for scrubbies. The copper mesh had good thermal mass so I didn't bother with any insulation on either my boiler or column. Would it be better for me to insulate my column now? It's cold in what passes for my distillery so I'll be insulating my boiler anyway, but I seem to remember reading on another site about someone who removed his column insulation and had better efficiency. Thinking back tho it might have been someone extolling the virtues of marbles v scrubbies and in all probability it was somewhere a bit warmer than N.Yorks in November

[Northern Stiller]

Hi bob

Personally I've never bothered with insulation before but must admit I insulated my boiler today for the first time not sure if it helped.

But in regards to your coloum I think the cold air helps with the reflux and efficiency but if you're in a draft I'm pretty sure that can mess with your equilibrium in the coloum.

Have you still got some copper in the vapour path?

From a fellow cold northerner

[buffalobob]

Eyup northern stiller, my column is 2" X 40" copper with a 6"" copper mesh plug just above the boiler, so yes, plenty of copper . I'm positive insulating the boiler will shorten my heat up time now it's getting colder. What did you use for insulation mate?

[Mash]

Insulation for boilers does work. It will shorten boil times, increase stability & use less electricity.

The stability point should also effect the column too, which should only be a good thing? You might find the sweet spot is different and isn't stable until the insulation is fully warmed up.

[myles]

Yes to insulation on both the boiler and the column.
It is not as important with a stainless column as that leaks less energy into the air.

Copper however looses a LOT of energy into the air, and ideally you want that energy inside the column. You do not want the column acting as a radiator.

Easiest way is to use preformed foam pipe insulation that is available in any size. I just get mine from an air conditioning seller on ebay or amazon. Don't insulate the reflux condenser though.

[buffalobob]

Thanks for the advice everyone I'll get my lovely still, Urnestine a nice warm winter outfit- she deserves it. My column is being a radiator at the moment Myles I read somewhere that copper is twenty times better than ss at conducting heat. It makes sense to get my rig sorted before my next run especially as it's in an unheated draughty room. Cheers everyone, Bob.

[Northern Stiller]

Alrite our kid

I'm from tother side of Pennines. I got a neoprene style jacket with the boiler but I have another which I was thinking of using the bubble silver wrap.

Must admit I didn't notice much difference with the insulation on the boiler but that's maybe because mine is stainless and so is my coloum .
Thanks for all the great advice everyone.

[Easydrinker]

Siver bubble wrap seems Ok
I don't believe the lagging/thermal loss claims of the seller.
But for sure it keeps some heat in.
Depending upon where you distll, this may save you time and money.

Robert.

[myles]

My LM still is fairly low power. Just a 3 kW element in a small keg boiler that I run with a 3 inch copper column.

LM 1.png

I use a double layer of aluminium bubble wrap on most the keg to keep in the heat. I find it does reduce the warm up time, my still room is unheated and not insulated - basically a converted garage/store room, so it is definitely on the cool side.

I also insulate the column for stability. This rig is not fast but it is steady. I have tried running packed columns at the maximum power level and I really did not like it. You are constantly seconds away from disaster. I prefer to cruise along at a lower power level with a bigger safety margin. Slower but steady.

[Easydrinker]

I have viewed many videos of home stills running "on the edge".
Slower and steady makes sense to me!

Robert.

[Mash]

Absolutely agree.

[Easydrinker]

If anyone has pushed the bubble, here, my money is on Myles.
Some of us here chatter.
Some say something meaningful, somtimes.
It is all worthwhile.

It is also late, and I am as drunk as...
(Put your own metaphor here, )
Time for bed.

Robert,

[buffalobob]

I can't see the point of running a still flat out. I never run at 100% even on warm up. Why stress your system for the sake of 5 mins. Steady away suits me, I'm in no rush.
I'm going to use the aluminium bubble wrap too, a couple of wraps of that can't do any harm I wouldn't think, and pipe insulation for the column sorted.

[buffalobob]

I've just read a post from a lad who removed his column insulation because it caused oils smearing through his run. He said he'd carried out extensive experiments and cured the problem by, as I said junking his insulation. Eh? I'm confused now. How could that be? I asked if he ran his rig hard and about his packing etc. He said his rig was probably bigger than mine, steam heated and in a heated building. Sounds amazing. anyone got any thoughts why insulating could cause smearing? Cheers, Bob

[Mash]

I've just read a post from a lad who removed his column insulation because it caused oils smearing through his run. He said he'd carried out extensive experiments and cured the problem by, as I said junking his insulation. Eh? I'm confused now. How could that be? I asked if he ran his rig hard and about his packing etc. He said his rig was probably bigger than mine, steam heated and in a heated building. Sounds amazing. anyone got any thoughts why insulating could cause smearing? Cheers, Bob

You answered this yourself

He was running it tooo hard !! turning it down a bit would have solved the problem too.

[myles]

Have to agree with Mash. You can smear ANY rig by applying more energy than it is happy with. You have to set up a stable equilibrium so you are continually washing through the packing. Vapour going up and liquid going down.
The real issue of insulation on the column is IF your system can put enough energy in to compensate for heat loss in the column.

If you have surplus energy you don't need insulation. Like most folks I suspect, that is not my situation 3 kW is enough for a 3" column but not at it's full potential.

[buffalobob]

Right, got it . Its like Scottie said to Captain Kirk," too much power Captain, the engine'l no tek it'. When I pm'd the lad he wasn't very forthcoming about his setup and suggested I start a thread on the subject so that I might learn something. He was of course correct and I thanked him for his kindness in responding so quickly. I meant it too I really do appreciate anyone who gives his/her advice freely, especially if they know what they're talking about , cheers all, Bob

[Mash]

Thanks myles. It is all about getting and running the sweetspot.

I wonder if insulation could still be beneficial even with enough power by smoothing out the temp loss and reducing the cost by using less electricity?

[myles]

I think so. Stability in the column is one of the things you aim for. Insulation helps.

[Boozoid]

Exercise and camping mats are high density Polyurethane closed cell foam. Dirt cheap from Home Bargins & B&M.
I wrapped up my column and boiler for peanuts and provides a high level of insulation

[buffalobob]

Thanks Boozoid, I'm off to my local B&M for a couple of mats shortly

[Mash]

Exercise and camping mats are high density Polyurethane closed cell foam. Dirt cheap from Home Bargins & B&M.
I wrapped up my column and boiler for peanuts and provides a high level of insulation

..and I guess its nice and warm if you fall asleep on the job (not that anyone here ever does that )

[Jennysgin]

Good for wrapping fermenters too

[buffalobob]

No matts at b&m (not camping season). Ordered 10m roll of aluminium bubble insulation instead.
Now I can insulate my fermenting cupboard too. It was down to less than 20c in my stilling dept today :shock Winter is coming

[Easydrinker]

Exercise and camping mats are high density Polyurethane closed cell foam. Dirt cheap from Home Bargins & B&M.
I wrapped up my column and boiler for peanuts and provides a high level of insulation

..and I guess its nice and warm if you fall asleep on the job (not that anyone here ever does that )

You know that I manage to fall asleep one still run out of every two! Cheeky fecker.
These days a larger overflow vessel proves to be a better mate than you!

Robert.