Still Smarter

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 9:30 am**

I currently own and run a modified (added controller) 750w air water distiller and I am thinking about upgrading to something lager.
The general consensus seems to be it's best to build your own, but that would mean buying all the tools necessary to do so as well as the necessary parts to be build the still.
It would also mean learning all of the skills necessary from scratch.
Personally I am looking for a plug n play option.

Primarily I want to be distilling Rum & Bourbon, but with the option to also run decent neutral when required to do so.
So something that easily converts from reflux to pot.
Ideally it would have a built in element. Although I'm not closed to the idea of using a portable hob or induction plate if needed.

For my purposes the Turbo 500 seems ideal. Especially as I'm still a rookie when it comes to distilling. It just seems a logical progression from the Air Still.

I was also looking at this set up or something similar on ebay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183890914183?ul_noapp=true
The seller said for an extra £25 they can make this still so it converts to a pot still by dividing the column.
Would this type of still be overkill for a relative novice?

I have a budget of around £500.

The issue I'm having with research is there is very limited information on off the shelf stills other than the T500. Which if I think about it probably is telling in it's self.

Sorry if I'm rambling. Any pointers would be happily received.

Thank you

Mark

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 9:47 am**

So for mainly flavoured spirits, those are routinely pot stilled. Hence for an off the shelf answer, a T500 but with the copper some lid and liebig condenser. You could also do neutral with it but I'd have thought that it may need double distilling for best results (and possibly a carbon filtering).

The standard T500 with a reflux column is ideal for high strength neutral in 1 run, but the column does strip all flavour (the principal of refluxing) so not good for flavoured spirits (which is why I just do the cleanest neutral I can, carbon filter, and even let the spirit down with RO water, then use essence flavours -made many different makes and types so have a reasonable ideal of which ones are good - always happy to try new, cos this phone just bleeped to say that DPD have just delivered my "Love Brewing" delivery, which should have 2 x of the StillSpirits Kraken Clone for me to taste this weekend

).

Hopefully that lot is of use to you.

Oh, there's also an additional still idea but it's generally lots of Dosh. Gaza can explain about bubble plate columns and their cost.....

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 10:04 am**

phantom wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 9:47 am So for mainly flavoured spirits, those are routinely pot stilled. Hence for an off the shelf answer, a T500 but with the copper some lid and liebig condenser. You could also do neutral with it but I'd have thought that it may need double distilling for best results (and possibly a carbon filtering).

The standard T500 with a reflux column is ideal for high strength neutral in 1 run, but the column does strip all flavour (the principal of refluxing) so not good for flavoured spirits (which is why I just do the cleanest neutral I can, carbon filter, and even let the spirit down with RO water, then use essence flavours -made many different makes and types so have a reasonable ideal of which ones are good - always happy to try new, cos this phone just bleeped to say that DPD have just delivered my "Love Brewing" delivery, which should have 2 x of the StillSpirits Kraken Clone for me to taste this weekend ).

Hopefully that lot is of use to you.

Oh, there's also an additional still idea but it's generally lots of Dosh. Gaza can explain about bubble plate columns and their cost.....

Hi Phantom.

Yes mainly for flavoured spirits. So pot still is the most favoured option, but as you say the T500 has the option to run as a reflux too with the column instead of dome. I think I'm just looking for reassurance that the T500 is the way to go.

It's very useful Phantom. Because the T500 has the most information on off the shelf stills out there. It felt like I was being lead that way and that maybe it isn't necessarily the best off the shelf out there for the price range. This is why I also asked about the ebay options of basically home built, but by someone else. I guess with the T500 you also get the reassurance that it's built by a reputable company and everything that goes with that.

I've seen the bubble plates in action on various youtube videos and would love a still that ran something like that just for the WOW effect alone. Maybe an upgrade for a later date.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 11:27 am**

Hey Sponge

I'm at the same stage as you, been running an airstill but wanted to move to a larger still. I'm lucky that I have a boiler already which the guys are currently helping me mod (separate thread happening on the forum right now).
I've bought a t500 lid and alembic condensor as I can use that straight away for stripping or falvoured runs.
For high strength neutral I've decided to try a different route than the t500, which will either work out or won't, but for the head it's quite a bit cheaper than the t500.
I've gone for an alcoengine. It's an LM still rather than CM like the t500. I have also ordered a sight glass for it because it looks nice.

The alcoengine hasn't turned up yet, but when I eventually get it and sort out my boiler mod I'll report how it's working.

There are plenty of t500 users here so I'm sure you'll get some decent reviews of it

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 12:08 pm**

Hi buddie only me.
T500 REFLUX great invest as Mr P said £390 new great for neutral (but will strip
out virtually all flavour high strength spirit 94%ABV

THE Copperware (alembic) £250 for just the dome and Condenser Flavour
galore pot still so lower % which goes from 80 down to 0on the run.
Let Me explainFirst drips 80 to 85% sliding down towards 0% as temperature
at the head goes from 86c to 100c Boiling point water.) On the T500 Reflux
the % on the product does not alter throughout the run, this has caused some
idiots to say it produces no heads or tails, THIS IS BOLLOCKS...

Then there is what I have just bolted together, I am not techie or clever with
hands I may be quick of brain and very clever with a steering wheel(others talk)
but I find Lego complicated so this is easy.
New T500 lid £30
Weldless triclamp fitting £30
2"to4"to2" Copper Torpeado £140
2" glass 4 plate column ,copperplates,
temperature unit and conderser £235
2" shotgun dephlegmater £65
Various bits and tubes £40
Cost near£600 it attaches to my T500 boiler and it is epic, better than watching telly and when
people come in they now think i am a clever but mad scientist.
This setup I would say sits bang in the middle of the other two. And will do both
Because it is built in units and triclamped it can be altered to the task at hand IE
take off glass column add 500or600mm pasked 2" stainless to up% for neutral or can add A Copper
dome£400 a 2" Gin basket £160 its like the Lego I find confusing.

So in conclusion and only from my own personal experience and Knowledge.
I would buy a T500 Stainless column
then Alembic Copperware with a water control https://www.lovebrewing.co.uk/t500-wate ... regulator/
and a votage control https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264592048684

There you go my view and what I have done. I will not be selling any of my kit
ex the new column possibly but only to replace with bigger and better.
And all I have is the one T500 boiler.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 12:43 pm**

You can get the T500 boiler with just the dome and condenser as far as I'm aware ( check to make sure) so you should be able to buy it in that configuration........

Then bingo, a nice easily manageable 25 litre pot still.....

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 12:45 pm**

gaza the instructor wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 12:08 pm Hi buddie only me.
T500 REFLUX great invest as Mr P said £390 new great for neutral (but will strip
out virtually all flavour high strength spirit 94%ABV

THE Copperware (alembic) £250 for just the dome and Condenser Flavour
galore pot still so lower % which goes from 80 down to 0on the run.
Let Me explainFirst drips 80 to 85% sliding down towards 0% as temperature
at the head goes from 86c to 100c Boiling point water.) On the T500 Reflux
the % on the product does not alter throughout the run, this has caused some
idiots to say it produces no heads or tails, THIS IS BOLLOCKS...

Then there is what I have just bolted together, I am not techie or clever with
hands I may be quick of brain and very clever with a steering wheel(others talk)
but I find Lego complicated so this is easy.
New T500 lid £30
Weldless triclamp fitting £30
2"to4"to2" Copper Torpeado £140
2" glass 4 plate column ,copperplates,
temperature unit and conderser £235
2" shotgun dephlegmater £65
Various bits and tubes £40
Cost near£600 it attaches to my T500 boiler and it is epic, better than watching telly and when
people come in they now think i am a clever but mad scientist.
This setup I would say sits bang in the middle of the other two. And will do both
Because it is built in units and triclamped it can be altered to the task at hand IE
take off glass column add 500or600mm pasked 2" stainless to up% for neutral or can add A Copper
dome£400 a 2" Gin basket £160 its like the Lego I find confusing.

So in conclusion and only from my own personal experience and Knowledge.
I would buy a T500 Stainless column
then Alembic Copperware with a water control https://www.lovebrewing.co.uk/t500-wate ... regulator/
and a votage control https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264592048684

There you go my view and what I have done. I will not be selling any of my kit
ex the new column possibly but only to replace with bigger and better.
And all I have is the one T500 boiler.

Reading this more closely later on, as I need a column for my milk can.........

TVM for the info Gaza

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 1:07 pm**

Mr P there are several usa sites that sell on the bay, but you can approach direct.
https://www.distillinguk.uk/wp-content/ ... Column.jpg
Wow and you have a milk can you lucky man

But that is just £750 plus p&p or https://www.distillinguk.uk/wp-content/ ... -Kit-2.jpg
£180 pot still.Or https://www.oakstills.com/columns
Wow, see what I mean https://www.oakstills.com/productinfo/247491.html
Good Luck We are all on your side mate.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 1:15 pm**

Mr P is right you can but any combo you like .
But obviously you need the bottom for top to work.
I have heard about taking the packing out of
the reflux column and using it like a pot still.
I have better things to do personally, like chase
semi clothed....... sorry secret top secret.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 4:00 pm**

gaza the instructor wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 12:08 pm Hi buddie only me.
T500 REFLUX great invest as Mr P said £390 new great for neutral (but will strip
out virtually all flavour high strength spirit 94%ABV

THE Copperware (alembic) £250 for just the dome and Condenser Flavour
galore pot still so lower % which goes from 80 down to 0on the run.
Let Me explainFirst drips 80 to 85% sliding down towards 0% as temperature
at the head goes from 86c to 100c Boiling point water.) On the T500 Reflux
the % on the product does not alter throughout the run, this has caused some
idiots to say it produces no heads or tails, THIS IS BOLLOCKS...

Then there is what I have just bolted together, I am not techie or clever with
hands I may be quick of brain and very clever with a steering wheel(others talk)
but I find Lego complicated so this is easy.
New T500 lid £30
Weldless triclamp fitting £30
2"to4"to2" Copper Torpeado £140
2" glass 4 plate column ,copperplates,
temperature unit and conderser £235
2" shotgun dephlegmater £65
Various bits and tubes £40
Cost near£600 it attaches to my T500 boiler and it is epic, better than watching telly and when
people come in they now think i am a clever but mad scientist.
This setup I would say sits bang in the middle of the other two. And will do both
Because it is built in units and triclamped it can be altered to the task at hand IE
take off glass column add 500or600mm pasked 2" stainless to up% for neutral or can add A Copper
dome£400 a 2" Gin basket £160 its like the Lego I find confusing.

So in conclusion and only from my own personal experience and Knowledge.
I would buy a T500 Stainless column
then Alembic Copperware with a water control https://www.lovebrewing.co.uk/t500-wate ... regulator/
and a votage control https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264592048684

There you go my view and what I have done. I will not be selling any of my kit
ex the new column possibly but only to replace with bigger and better.
And all I have is the one T500 boiler.

DorsetScott wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 11:27 am Hey Sponge

I'm at the same stage as you, been running an airstill but wanted to move to a larger still. I'm lucky that I have a boiler already which the guys are currently helping me mod (separate thread happening on the forum right now).
I've bought a t500 lid and alembic condensor as I can use that straight away for stripping or falvoured runs.
For high strength neutral I've decided to try a different route than the t500, which will either work out or won't, but for the head it's quite a bit cheaper than the t500.
I've gone for an alcoengine. It's an LM still rather than CM like the t500. I have also ordered a sight glass for it because it looks nice.

The alcoengine hasn't turned up yet, but when I eventually get it and sort out my boiler mod I'll report how it's working.

There are plenty of t500 users here so I'm sure you'll get some decent reviews of it

Brilliant replies DorsetScot and Gaza. Just the kind of reassurance I was looking for.
You're right it does make sense to buy the reflux column configuration first Gaza, as I already have a pot still. Albeit a small one with the air still. Then buy the dome at a later stage. Or just get them all together. I'm sure I read some posts that said the dome wasn't needed though and that the copper column is a waste of money?

Sounds like you're having a lot of fun with the new set up Gaza. Does the new configuration up do a better job than the other two individually?

I was wondering if and when people upgraded from a T500 what they would upgrade to. The only answer I seem to be coming up with is a self build. I guess the limitations in product choice come with the territory of the hobby. What with it being illegal in most parts of the world.
I'm not entirely adverse to building something like you have done and I'm no clutz. It's just my ability will not give me the best finished job. One of my doubts about buying a T500 is if and when I will want to upgrade. Should I just go all in now? Will work out a lot cheaper in the long run. It does seem most users want a little more than the T500 offers?
Hence your upgrade?

I'm itching to take the plunge, but cannot shake a nagging doubt that if I do. Then I'm only putting off the inevitable self build.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 4:09 pm**

Ask yourself why you want to go larger...
Do you enjoy the tinkering?
Or is the AS just to slow?
Too small a quantity?
Do you think you can't make what you want with the AS?

The answers might surprise you.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 5:00 pm**

Mash wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 4:09 pm Ask yourself why you want to go larger...
Do you enjoy the tinkering?
Or is the AS just to slow?
Too small a quantity?
Do you think you can't make what you want with the AS?

The answers might surprise you.

Great questions Mash.
I'll answer them
I don't enjoy tinkering as much as I enjoy acquiring the knowledge. My other hobby is carp fishing which requires a lot of tinkering with rigs and such and it's the part I enjoy the least.

Slow and quantity kind of. I'd prefer it to be less labour intensive refilling the still. Be more preferable to be able to still 20ltr+ at once. Quantity in terms of production, not really. I'd say I've made roughly 20 ltrs if proofed down to 40% abv since the end of April and I've only just finished a 700ml bottle of spiced rum. The rest is just shelved.
I'm not actually much of a drinker, but can appreciate a good drop.
Cards on the table. All of this has been a massive distraction for me. I needed to absorb myself into something. A bit of a defence mechanism really. The upgrade is all part of the distraction. But I have also grown to love this hobby. My desire is to produce a rum and bourbon (maybe even a Whisky) I can be proud of. Gins and white spirits are not really to my liking, but it is for guests and relatives. So I'd still like to make a quality product.

I've no doubt the air still can produce a decent product. It has already even with my limited experience. More than impressed with it and will continue to use it. No way is it being relegated. It's just I need more distracting .

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 7:07 pm**

So it's handy that I don't do (or have the time and space for) flavoured spirits, so I just run a whole 25 ltd bucket of wash (generally vodka star) in 1 hit.

Including the heat up, it takes 4.5 hours and I get about 3.6 litres of 94% spirit.

The upgrade for my usual stuff might be the dome and liebig condenser, as then I can strip any wines I don't like.......

Still planning what to put on top of the milk can though.......

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2020 8:16 pm**

All I say is this. It is your hobby your fun,a great pastime.
Spend what you can afford and buy because you want.
You already have an AS you can make whatever you like on
that, blimey Mash is your man, if he has not fallen in the
freezer.
I have 4 stills they all do different jobs.
AS is a pot.
T500 is a Reflux
Alembic is a bigger pot.
Glass Column is just sexy and good for Rum and flavoured spirits.

Posted: **Sat May 30, 2020 7:42 am**

There is one other option/modification that I don't think has been mentioned yet.

Using a packed reflux column as a pot still. This only works on a CM type still with no atmospheric vent

You can do this if you modify the coolant supply. Essentially you need to be able to switch OFF the coolant to the reflux condenser whilst it is still ON for the product condenser.

No reflux condenser coolant = no induced reflux = the packing gets hot.

Once the packing is hot it behaves as if it is not there. All the vapour goes straight through to the product condenser.

Posted: **Sat May 30, 2020 8:13 am**

My desire is to produce a rum and bourbon (maybe even a Whisky)

Perhaps spend the money on ingredients and oak then?

With another AS and a freezer, you can have a 23l wash finished to neutral in 4 hours.

The distraction and learning is flavouring, sampling, testing and recipe development?

Buy a inkbird and improve your fermentation skills.
This hobby is garbage in garbage out, good fermentation = good base product.

Posted: **Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:24 pm**

Thank you for the replies Gaza, Phantom, Mash & Myles.

Mash you did make me pause for thought. I've already started toying with oak, aging, nuking, ultrasonic baths etc. That's the part I do enjoy.
My fermentation skills do need enhancing. Most ferments are taking 3-4 weeks for neutral. Tried Kale, Birdwatchers, Nettles, Spinach. All 3-4 weeks.
My UJSSM and Buccaneer Bobs rum have both fermented out within 7 days.
Noted about garbage in garbage out. My first ferment was a turbo wash. I knew it was going to be bad. It's the reason I did it. I needed a frame of reference. I'm glad I did to. I think I gained a lot from it.

That's good to know Myles, although today I took the plunge and will shortly be taking delivery of a Turbo 500 Boiler, Alembic Dome and Condenser, Stainless Steel Column Condenser and water flow regulator. So I'll have the pot still option with the dome and condenser, but it's good to know there is also an alternative option using the column.

On side note a friend gave me an old 25 litre Stawell ST4 boiler. Anything it's useful for aside from mashing? Not even sure it's useful for that as it's an exposed element. Good for bring large quantities of water to boil at once in the least. As that was an option I was lacking before.

Posted: **Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:23 pm**

Can you not put one of those false bottom thingies in??

Posted: **Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:29 am**

Sponge wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:24 pm

On side note a friend gave me an old 25 litre Stawell ST4 boiler. Anything it's useful for aside from mashing? Not even sure it's useful for that as it's an exposed element. Good for bring large quantities of water to boil at once in the least. As that was an option I was lacking before.

Mashing with an exposed element can be a pain.
But no-one with experience would turn down an old boiler.

Robert.

Posted: **Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:02 am**

Am biting my lip again ED

Posted: **Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:23 am**

Ooo, You are awful, but I do like you!

Robert.

Posted: **Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:15 am**

gaza the instructor wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:23 pm Can you not put one of those false bottom thingies in??

I did wonder if any of the false bottoms on the market fit. Need to get the tape measure out. Definitely an addition I will make if possible.

Easydrinker wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:29 am
Sponge wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:24 pm

On side note a friend gave me an old 25 litre Stawell ST4 boiler. Anything it's useful for aside from mashing? Not even sure it's useful for that as it's an exposed element. Good for bring large quantities of water to boil at once in the least. As that was an option I was lacking before.
Mashing with an exposed element can be a pain.
But no-one with experience would turn down an old boiler.

Robert.

An issue due to the possibility of scorching and creating off flavours? A pain to clean?

A bit of citric acid and she scrubbed up a dream.

Posted: **Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:49 am**

Let's not lead you astray here Sponge.

A false bottom is a filter device for keeping the grain contained while draining.

A lot.. no sorry, a huge ammount of machines use exposed elements to mash. With a controller the temp never exceeds mid 60's.

Scorching is a problem when boiling, typically viscous or stationary liquid. Water baths and stirrers are used to prevent the off flavours this creates.

Posted: **Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:58 pm**

If you can't find a false bottom that fits, try cutting your own using something from this company-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/mesh-company ... 2749.l2754
The SS mesh they supply is great.

Robert.

Posted: **Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:10 am**

Mash wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:49 am Let's not lead you astray here Sponge.

A false bottom is a filter device for keeping the grain contained while draining.

A lot.. no sorry, a huge ammount of machines use exposed elements to mash. With a controller the temp never exceeds mid 60's.

Scorching is a problem when boiling, typically viscous or stationary liquid. Water baths and stirrers are used to prevent the off flavours this creates.

I had seen the false bottoms on various other boilers. Good information on the mashing. I already have a controller for the AS, but think I need at least another 2. So Best get a couple on the slow boat ASAP.

My first attempt at mashing was going to be an attempt at Honey Bear Bourbon. Which I noticed only requires water to be brought to the boil and then added to another vessel containing corn, then adding the additional malts and enzymes at various temperatures as it cools? Are mashes like this based on Booner's corn protocol? Or am I confusing the two?

Easydrinker wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:58 pm If you can't find a false bottom that fits, try cutting your own using something from this company-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/mesh-company ... 2749.l2754
The SS mesh they supply is great.

Robert.

Thank you for the link Robert. I think even with my limited DIY skills I could manage to cut a circle out of mesh. Easy and practical solution.

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