Commercial Grade High Alkaline PH Adjustment.

[StillBrewing]

I recently posted a question on another group asking about a commercial grade, high alkaline liquid additive for adjusting ph of large amounts of washes/mashes.
I've seen somewhere that this is available and miniscule amounts are needed to adjust big ph swings.
Any group members have any ideas what this might be. I'm certain I didn't dream it !!
Cheers

[Easydrinker]

I consider it safer to bulk buy food grade Sodium Bicarb.
Couple of spoons of this are easy to administer and monitor.

Robert.

[Mash]

Or have some shell in the brew. Which stops the swing in the first place.

What volumes do you need to treat?

[StillBrewing]

Or have some shell in the brew. Which stops the swing in the first place.

What volumes do you need to treat?

Its not me Mash, the problem lies with my commercial friend. He spent 25 years in the US learning the craft, no problems at all.

Moves back to the UK and has nothing but problems with keeping on top of ph.His usual Bourbon mashes are 200 ish litres and a recent ph drop saw it go down to 3.3 while fermenting on the grain, something he has always done. Upping the ph to a more acceptable level sometimes sees him adding as much as 500ml of bicarb. Surely this is going to affect flavour if he carries on adding more throughout the ferment.

He's tried everything. Many different yeasts/nutrients, different mash abv's, he's tried the lot. He still can't control the ph swings. He did even try shells in a bag with limited success.

Sometimes it makes me think the problem is caused by the water. There again, I'm in the same county as him but we do have our water from different sources.

[JedTodd]

it would pay dividends for him to pay 40 quid for a water supply analysis, and then go to brewers friend to use their software, problems could be shown up in the grain bill/ water/ Adjuncts etc, it then shows the recommendation for adding or subtracting chemicals to meet the desired p.h. good luck to him

[Mash]

With you there Jed. Good shout

I am inclined to suspect the water, which will be very different from place to place.

Silly question, if he is commercial does he still have access to the lab and or the lab mates that could help him?

[Easydrinker]

We are a hobby site.
While it is interesting to learn of commercial ventures, really,their machinations are outwith our domain.
Please end this discussion of commercial practice here and now.

This site does not promote commerce from members.
If anyone is distilling as a business, then they must have built some R & D into their model.

This site exists to aid home distillers, and keep them safe in the home production of small quantities of spirits.
Anyone seeking to sell their produce can go elsewhere.

This thread has the sword of some old Greek fella dangling over it, and I will remove it, if I see it as a threat to this sites tenets.

Robert.

[Mash]

I am convinced StillBrewing meant no offence in this post.

Certainly I think any commercial conversation, should stop, because we do not get involved, support or advice anyone selling. We are as you say, about safety.

But do not delete it. This is a very good marker that clearly states our intention, for future casual readers.

[Mash]

I have re-read this thread and I am not sure there is any "commerce" occurring. We certainly have other members who brew on that volume.

That said, points above still stand.

[StillBrewing]

Apologies to all.

I certainly didn't intend to 'rock the boat', I just thought asking a question on this site about fermentation might get a better reply compared to other groups out there in internet land, considering the vast experience of some members.

No problem, I will delete the post myself once you have read this.
Cheers

[Mash]

Apology accepted, I was sure there was no offence meant. TBH it was certainly a mistake I could have made.

As an admin here, I would ask this is left intact. It is a good example of what we are about.

No worries here SB.

When I get a minute I will lock the thread.

[Icefever]

Apologies to all.

I certainly didn't intend to 'rock the boat', I just thought asking a question on this site about fermentation might get a better reply compared to other groups out there in internet land, considering the vast experience of some members.

No problem, I will delete the post myself once you have read this.
Cheers

Please don't delete the OP SB as it mucks up the thread...this way other members/visitors will know that we only deal with small-batch distilling.

Ice.

[Moss]

Commercial Distilling

Our hobby, whilst legal in the New Zealand, It is frowned upon in most other places, indeed, when we look at Popcorn Sutton and his Appalachian kin in ‘Merica, it appears that one can be ‘thrown in the slammer’ for partaking in our little pastime.

As a group, we do not condone nor suggest that you ever do anything illegal, but we strive to keep the things that you do safe and hazard free, as much as is possible anyway.

We have recently had posts hinting at distilling in commercial quantities. This is important – WE at Stillsmarter do not condone this. Unless you have the required licence, and you are working with commercial quantities, you are breaking the law and you should not do this.

I speak from personal experience – When I was distilling, I had some long conversations with the local Constabulary and my Housing Officers and we all discussed the prospect of me losing both my home and liberty. Believe me, they do not like it.

If you do discuss commercial distilling, and we think that you might be doing this, please be aware that we may:

Ask you to moderate your posts
We may moderate your posts
We may delete your posts
AND we may delete you.

Please, if you are going to pursue this hobby, be safe, take advice and enjoy yourself, but, most importantly

DON’T TELL, DON’T SELL.

It may help to have a look at this article:

https://diydistilling.com/is-home-disti ... y-country/

[StillBrewing]

Again, apologies to all.

What I didn't mention in my post was that my friend is a legal distiller with a full distilling license here in the UK. Should have said that in the beginning.

No problem chaps, will not delete my posts. Like you say 'other members will know that this group only deals with small batch distilling'

Cheers

[Easydrinker]

I am happy to leave the thread intact.
StillBrewing meant no harm.
And it does indeed make this sites position clear.
I don't consider it worthwhile locking the thread.
I am happy to hear of others thoughts on the matter.

Robert.

[JedTodd]

Hi Stillbrewing, was the fermentation problem addressed? I thought it unusual to ferment on the grain, as mentioned, from this i surmise that no wort boil took place? Could it be the difference in American Barley and British Barley, or the yeast is extracting too much tannins from the Barley Husk? be interesting to know, cheers

[Mash]

Or have some shell in the brew. Which stops the swing in the first place.

What volumes do you need to treat?

Its not me Mash, the problem lies with my commercial friend. He spent 25 years in the US learning the craft, no problems at all.

Moves back to the UK and has nothing but problems with keeping on top of ph.His usual Bourbon mashes are 200 ish litres and a recent ph drop saw it go down to 3.3 while fermenting on the grain, something he has always done.

I would like to know too, Has he got to the bottom of what the problem was?

[phantom]

Big swings in pH aren't just a "grain" issue. You try making a traditional mead without thought of pH issues and you can/may experience this even more.

My worst effort was a swing down from about 4.8 pH down to 3.1pH and even I could see that it was nearly stalled.

Either just a pH buffer like potassium carbonate or even just a healthy dose of nutrients or some fruit can prevent that to some extent (this was why me and some others tried all the usual suspects as pH buffers and concluded that the least effect on the finished product, was potassium carbonate).

[Mash]

As I am very likely to be venturing into honey fermentation... What the usage / method for potassium carbonate please.

[Easydrinker]

I am on my third mead.
!st was from store bought honey, fermented out to 14%, no problem, but no taste.
2nd from my own washed honey comb, I made the error of using hot water to maximise the extraction of honey from the comb, resulting in much propolis in the wash, it fermented out no problem, but is as black as Stout and tastes rough.
Third is from one of this years dead outs, comb washed in lukewarm water.
Wash golden in colour, almost finished fermenting, again no Ph adjustment needed.
I have no interest in spiced meads, so cannot comment on how spices may effect the Ph of a wash.

Robert.

[Mash]

Good tip - cold water thanks.

Think I am sorting extraction, but might have to experiment a little with mead.

No sure how this will work yet, but I might soon, become a bee rehoming/rescue apiary.

[Easydrinker]

Ill stick a post elsewhere, re; honey extraction from a Warre hive/comb.

Robert.

[phantom]

As I am very likely to be venturing into honey fermentation... What the usage / method for potassium carbonate please.

I just did 1tsp per gallon of must - the Kcarb was in powdered form.

Seems to act as a good pH buffer preventing the swing/possible subsequent stall, in the first place.

We knew all they work, we were just looking for which had the lowest affect on flavour at the end result. Anything sodium based was out the window straight away and of the various K formations, Kcarb was the best.

[Easydrinker]

Why so down on Sodium based?
NaCl is a great part of my daily life, and most of the world's.

Robert.

[Mash]

You are right Ed. Sodium has its place and is very good at it.

People around the globe use wheels on cars, but you don't often set them on diggers. Different horses etc..

The potassium versions are cleaner tasting in product. Sodium metabisulphate (aka campden tablets) for example leaves a very distinct homebrew twang in wine. Pot met does not. It was probably one of my biggest discoveries in wine making.

So pot carbonate makes perfect sense to me. I am lucky that I don't really suffer the pH swing to much (high calcium content in water is my theory) so a few shells works a treat.