Sour mash

[Al Cohall]

Howdy folks brand new here and looking for some advice.
I'm running a corn/ Sweet feed run and wanted to know if I could save and use some back set from this run for my next run which would be a different grain bill. Corn / barley/ rye. For sour mash. Didn't know if using 2 different mashes would work. Thanks

[WelshGin]

Completely abstract, as I do not do pure cereal washes. However I do mix washes constructed with part Alpen and those with part wheatabix. No adverse product. There is a 'carry over' of sweet caramel/toffee if any raisins/sultanas in the original wash as long as I have run the Still without any packing in column with the majority of Water going through the condenser rather than column.

I appreciate now there is little point putting flavour in the wash if you distill and then condense it out back into the wash/pot to throw away.

[gaza the instructor]

Howdy folks brand new here and looking for some advice.
I'm running a corn/ Sweet feed run and wanted to know if I could save and use some back set from this run for my next run which would be a different grain bill. Corn / barley/ rye. For sour mash. Didn't know if using 2 different mashes would work. Thanks

Hi Al
No reason why not mate, it's what we do with Rum isn't it. Just make sure you use a sterile container to store and I would store in the fridge.
Don't know about you but I don't believe in dunder pits, it all seems just a bit unhealthy to me.
The other way is to do something like a U.J.S.S.M.then running up to about five generations the flavour gets stronger and more complex with each.

[phantom]

Concur with Gaza i.e. that it's likely better to use a "known" technique like using tails/backset over however many generations it takes/needs to transfer the flavour over.

The only proper Rum distillery I've been to is Mount Gay (Barbados), and they use a reflux like column though I'd guess it's bubble plates rather than packed sections. It was explained to me that it still came from the condenser at about 94/95% in raw form, so the resulting flavour must come from barrels and caramel etc.

Plus there's also the possible issue of letting the spirit down for the various markets, while managing to retain the same/consistent flavour (only seen the video clip of the blending/tasting at Jack Daniels, whether other places producing "flavoured spirits" do the same or whether they rely on pure method and lab results?).

[gaza the instructor]

Well said Mr P, if you have spirit at 85% or so you have to dilute with something or it will kill you.
Trouble is if that something is water it will dilute the taste and destroy your lovely product. Answer
is to use a pot still and keep flavour locked in and at 75% , just need to drop 30%. Also as Mr P said
most of the flavour comes from the barrel and additives after the final distil.

[Mash]

Yup. What they said. No reason not too

[WelshGin]

I loove this banter, a long time ago I could not relate to it, thought it was drivel, I now appreciate how very true, contrived, developed it is. I will continue to read these posts which are not currently on my agenda to practice. Ta.

[DorsetScott]

Howdy folks brand new here and looking for some advice.
I'm running a corn/ Sweet feed run and wanted to know if I could save and use some back set from this run for my next run which would be a different grain bill. Corn / barley/ rye. For sour mash. Didn't know if using 2 different mashes would work. Thanks

Hi Al. Absolutely you can.
Obviously you may get different flavours than a multi generation sour mash using the backset from the same recipe but no harm in the experimenting

[Al Cohall]

Thank very much for a direct answer.

[myles]

I am going to give you a slightly different perspective to think about.

1. Do you like the flavour of sour mash grain? If so then go for it. When I drink grain I prefer Rye which is an unusual beast anyway, and I am not that keen on the sour mash version. I use backset (dunder/stillage), but not a lot.

2. I like Rum. I use a lot of backset for that. What is not so widely publicised is that it slows down the fermentation rate. Sure it has loads of residual flavour but generally it is undesirable to ferment too fast. If I set a batch off in hot weather I might use 100% backset.

3. It is not widely publicised but there are indications that many distilleries use a small amount of backset as a flavour enhancer that is added to the final product.

It does have different effects so please experiment.

[WelshGin]

My favourite whiskey

Canadian Club

&

The SS rye Whisky essence. Which is better.

[Al Cohall]

Is there such a thing as a one run sour mash ? Grain wise.
I have some back set from a previous run So can I double ferment that grain and get something like sour mash?
On my next run I'm using backset and tails in the boiler and heads in the thumper. Corn/ barley and rye.

[myles]

Not really.
The traditional route is multi-generational with a flavour profile that develops over time.
That is why it is a personal thing - do you like the taste?

It is not a black and white issue though. There are variations. You can do partial sour mashes.

I do recommend that on the first run of a new sequence you only take a very small centre hearts cut for drinking. Just use it to generate feints and backest. You can get some drinking product on the next few runs and you should be into a stable flavour profile by about run no 5. It is a slow business tweaking the grain bill to find what you like.

[Al Cohall]

Very good explanation. I get it. The rabbit hole is deep.