Rectifiers Licence

[POITÍN]

Hi again,
I’ve been away from the site for quite a while, but taking a read every now and then.
I was chatting to a local legal distiller recently who has his own line of gins. He uses a rectifiers licence and sells all over.
I was amazed to see he had a Poitín on the shelf for sale. I asked him how he manages to produce Poitín on such a licence. He told me he buys in GNS and redistills it to make Poitín. I think he throws in grain to give flavour, not exactly sure, but must ask him when I see him again.
It got me thinking though, what different drinks can be made with this method? I always thought of Poitín being made from a mash or wash and distilling, never actually thought of using GNS.
I assume whiskeys could not be made with this method?
I just found it interesting and thought I’d pick your brains on here

[Moss]

What is GNS?

[POITÍN]

Hi Moss, Grain Neutral Spirit

[Mash]

A rectifiers license means that you can flavour spirit but not make it from yeast and sugar.

In the traditional sense whisky, brandy and rum are out.

But if you can get there with flavours anything is possible.

Blackberry whiskey for instance.

Vodka

Gin

What about using monin or essence?

Oaking?

Ultrasonic flavour extraction?

And on and on

[POITÍN]

Brilliant info Mash!
Just shows that getting a full distilling licence would never be worth all the hassle if you ever did want to take your hobby to the next level.
I know you say that whiskey etc, in the traditional sense be out of the question, but just to play devils advocate, if you were to buy a beer in from a brewery and distill on your rectifiers licence you wouldn’t technically be making any more alcohol, just distilling it off. So would you be able to make whiskey that way or are there regulations around making whiskey where you must ferment and distill in one premises or something?
Just a silly question from someone who has too much time to think!
Thanks everyone

[WelshGin]

Good sugar stone.

Who is it that keeps quoting, 'there is no right way'. Go and skin as many literal cats as you can. Enjoy.

[POITÍN]

Haha, fair enough WelshGin, I’m getting too bogged down with technicalities and not making enough spirit!

[Mash]

.... but just to play devils advocate, if you were to buy a beer in from a brewery and distill on your rectifiers licence you wouldn’t technically be making any more alcohol..

I do like your thinking.... Full marks.
But I fear the answer is "no" that's distilling!

[WelshGin]

Does HMRC have any competent 'devils' to advocate?

I am not sure/un aware of the rectification rules. The duty will have been paid on the beer, do as you wish.

[myles]

The duty will have been paid on the beer, do as you wish.

Unfortunately, duty rates are variable and are based on the ABV of the product.
Even if they allowed it, you would still have to pay duty at the higher rate on tour product

[POITÍN]

Very interesting responses, I do like everyone’s thinking and appreciate everyone’s opinions on the subject. I would love to be legally distilling without having to go through the hassle of obtaining a full distilling licence! I am also in full swing distilling as it is, so makes no odds to me if it’s legal or not haha
Keep the comments coming, your thoughts make for very interesting reading and give food for thought, much appreciated

[phantom]

This is one of the reasons that the gin market is so flooded i.e. they just have rectifier license and flavour NGS.

Those that do have a full distilling license usually have a USP of some sort - Chase distillery was owned by the Tyrells Crisps owner (farm next to distillery).

The crisps business was sold off, but I suspect the distillery still used the residue of unsaleable potato (their gin and vodka are made from them).

Plus there's a bloke in Oxfordshire (I believe), who grows all old, heritage strains of grain, contracted malted, then he distills into specialist vodka, gin and other spirits.

I'm suspecting that if you got a rectifier license, you'd still need a specific marketing target. At least for the first few years, to get the bank balance up where it'd need to be to fund improvement/changes to develop things further.

[POITÍN]

That’s the thing Phantom,
With the rectifiers licence being easier to obtain, many more people have one than distillers licences so as you say you need to set yourself apart in some way to stand out to get off the ground.
I have a farm here and would love to start a small distillery, but the financial burden of getting a distilling licence would be far and away too much, so I was trying to think outside the box a bit of how to get around that and still be able to produce Poitín or Whiskey on a rectifiers licence, but seems such things could be out the window.
I have stone buildings for the still house, big cavity walled sheds for storage and maturation, three phase power, I could even grow my own grain to tie in the unmalted barley for mash bill etc… I would just need to build myself a big still, which wouldn’t be a problem as I’m a welder by trade, just a matter of buying the copper sheets and the fittings… but it’s all still a bit too far out of reach hobby distilling is still very enjoyable for me

[phantom]

That’s the thing Phantom,
With the rectifiers licence being easier to obtain, many more people have one than distillers licences so as you say you need to set yourself apart in some way to stand out to get off the ground.
I have a farm here and would love to start a small distillery, but the financial burden of getting a distilling licence would be far and away too much, so I was trying to think outside the box a bit of how to get around that and still be able to produce Poitín or Whiskey on a rectifiers licence, but seems such things could be out the window.
I have stone buildings for the still house, big cavity walled sheds for storage and maturation, three phase power, I could even grow my own grain to tie in the unmalted barley for mash bill etc… I would just need to build myself a big still, which wouldn’t be a problem as I’m a welder by trade, just a matter of buying the copper sheets and the fittings… but it’s all still a bit too far out of reach hobby distilling is still very enjoyable for me

Indeed. I looked into going pro long before the gin world went stupid (I'd already worked out that for quick turnover it'd need to be gone/vodka initially), but the then regs were very onerous so I preferred the idea of keeping my head below the parapet.

Plus I'm no gambler so...........

[Mash]

https://adgefrin.co.uk/distillery

These guys have recently built a brand new distillery. Spent millions.

[POITÍN]

That is a serious setup…
There’s a lot riding on sales now after this point.. not simple to claw back millions.
There’s an interesting size of distillery on the Isle of Man, I think 200 and 100 litre pot stills, that would be more like my setup I’d be going for: https://manxwhisky.com/

Here’s another good distillery in Tasmania, he has one 300 litre still and supports his family on that, just interesting to see both ends of the spectrum… this guy is on YouTube, calls himself distiller Chris: https://nonesuchdistillery.com.au/
https://youtube.com/@distillerchris?si=3k63wx0siwOGiTw0

[phantom]

https://adgefrin.co.uk/distillery

These guys have recently built a brand new distillery. Spent millions.

dunno about this place, but I did have to deliver something (can't remember what) to the St Georges Distillery (think that was the name they used) near Thetford some years ago.

At the time, they'd only been licensed for less than a year and chatting with the bloke, he said about having to stick very closely to Scottish method/technique etc, as that was (one of) the markets that they were aiming at. All that "3 years in oak" etc stuff.

Been watching them on and off in any media stuff that arises. Stuff like them selling some "eau de vie" to Scotland (presuming that would have been used for blended Scotch) etc.

This is some time ago now (10 years + from memory), but I do recall that when they first opened up, it was the first new English whisky distillery for some stupidly long amount of time (something like 250 years).

What I managed see, was that it was very clean and looked like it was well set up, and likely cost as much as this new one to construct.

[Mash]

It's a worthwhile look around, I blagged a go and the joked I had a bigger column. Great crowd.

[Jennysgin]

https://adgefrin.co.uk/distillery

These guys have recently built a brand new distillery. Spent millions.

Ooh, I reckon this could be done in a day trip!
Wonder if I could get hubby to drive so I could sample!

[Mash]

If you sample enough, he will have to