Jenever/Genever (however it's spelled)

[phantom]

So I know that there's a reasonable difference between gin and j/genever.

But from the bit of reading I've done, j/genever is done with "malt wine" (think that's what it said) rather than straight neutral.

Anyone point me in the right direction for something more concise and whether the "malt wine" is just a beer with no bittering agent, or maybe I could just use a beer kit (no hops) and then run it before working on the aromatics ?

[Moss]

I thought Genever was in Switzerland

[myles]

Jenever is made in a 2 stage process. You actually create two separate spirits that you then blend together.

Spirit 1 is maltwine. This is actually an unaged whisky (rye/barley/wheat) at a relatively low 45% to 50%.
Spirit 2 is a botanically flavoured neutral - a typical gin.

There are 3 different styles of Jenever. Young has a light flavour, through to Kornwijn, that is like a botanically flavoured whisky.

Young = about 5% maltwine, and fewer botanicals.
Old = minimum 15% maltwine, and more botanicals.
Kornwijn = minimum 51% maltwine, and cask aged.

[phantom]

Ah, ok TVM Myles.

That explains it clearly enough for me not to bother

If I see some, I'll just buy a bottle to try....

[myles]

It is worth a try.
I quite like the Oude (old) style as it is essentially gin with a heavier botanical loading and often stronger varieties of botanicals are used. The malt is fairly obvious also.

Kornwijn is a bit of an acquired taste. Whisky with botanical flavours.

[Easydrinker]

myles, I am so glad that you are here!
You leave wikipedia far behind.

Robert.

[myles]

Jenever is very nice, a completely different flavour profile to Gin, because of the inclusion of malt.
I like it.

[phantom]

Jenever is very nice, a completely different flavour profile to Gin, because of the inclusion of malt.
I like it.

I seem to recall you mentioned good things about it before, and the vaguest of ideas stuck in my head (hence the question of whether it could be straightforward, or not as the case seems).

Still wondering, if the "malt wine" could be produced by just fermenting a beer kit but not adding the hops ? as that'd make things easier etc.

Will have to do some more reading about it to work out whether it's too much effort (not so much lazy, as "time poor") or not.

Equally, maybe I'll have to do some digging around to see if I can find some online (no idea about whether any of the offies around here would stock it or not).........

[Mash]

In short yes.

My understanding, when I researched it, was that all gins are a beer wash (grain spirit). But English gins are distilled into a pure neutral in a column, but jenever's (other spelling are available) are pot stilled and retain various amounts of the malt flavour.

[myles]

Traditionally in the UK all gin used to be made with a base spirit that was cask strength, unaged, white whisky.

Later on to meet some regulations that white whisky would be refined further - to make it more "neutral" before it was used as a base spirit.

Off course now a lot of gin is made with a base spirit that is industrially produced Grain Neutral Spirit, which can be sourced from a variety of grains.

[WelshGin]

All very interesting.


Have just started my 'To do on holiday list '.

Exploring/experimenting with Genever top of the list.
Learning all of the good quotes from Churchill and 'The Cowboys' movie.
Acquiring a drink bottle for my bicycle that will keep G&T cold and fizzy.
Training my cat on a lead.
Etc

WelshGin.

[Mash]

No.4 sounds like no.3 should be "Buy should thick gloves"

[myles]

I like cats.
We have had numerous breeds over the years but some time back we got three Bengals.

2018-07-16 16.32.24.jpg

2018-10-21 14.20.22.jpg

Lovely cats but super aggressive to other breeds. Very dominant. Just one step away from an Asian Leopard Cat. They terrorised our other cats.
We ended up passing them on to a very nice bloke that only had other Bengals.
It worked out just fine.
They walk on leads, live in a gated community, and the vet makes house calls. Spoiled or what!!
A lovely breed - but not to mix with other breeds.

Edit: Our cats are now all house cats - except for 1 ginger tom. However, I extended our fruit cage to give them a secure outdoor, summer enclosure, with their own cattery. Heated beds, radio, etc, etc. The local road is just too dangerous - we have lost several cats to cars over the years.

[Easydrinker]

I am waiting for my ex-feral cat to die.
I love him to bits, but 3 & 1/2 years of the occasional flea bite is enough!
I still can't pick him up, but he will share my bed, and accept fuss, when it suits.
And with effort, I can use Spot On, for fleas, and worms.
His moving in was expedient, not particularly wanted.
He is praised for bringing home furry catches,voles, mice, rabbits, rats, weasels even.
Not always dead, and some escape and hide under the fridge, or my bed!
He has learned not to bring home anything with feathers, I scream Blue Murder and take them from him.
He now has unlimited Kanga chunks and Kibble, but once depended upon what he caught.
Who am I to lecture on old habits?
When he first arrived, he made his one and only visit to the vet, in a "crush-cage" (I would not inflict that on him again) to have his crown jewels dis-connected, that calmed him down a little.
But after attacking my neighbours cat one time, resulting in them visiting a pet hospital at 2am, and spending several hundred pounds to save their cats eye, they now pay £12 a month for the pheremones to keep him calmer!
These plug in drugs, maybe not species specific, I breathe too, some old hands here may have noticed that I have become less antagonistic?

He will not be replaced.
I will be boarding up the catflap!
And maybe start picking fights...

[Easydrinker]

Nearly forgot.
Genever.
It must be over 30 years since I last tasted it, so the memories are vague.
But I remember being prompted to try it because I was tending bar, and got tired of listening to Blue rinsed ladies arguing over Boothe's and Gordon's.
So, I tried them both, and then the only Genever behind the bar, brand now forgotten.
The Genever was by far superior, I seem to recall.

Robert.

[phantom]

Genever and cats, how bizarre. Haven't managed to get my finger out to locate some yet, but the cats I can do because my beloved is a cat lady.

Most of them have been rehomes or rescues. Currently we have 4, Ted & Eady are siblings (3 years old), then Colin is a rehome (aged about 6) and Stanley was a rescue (we did have his brother Charlie, but he popped off about 18 months/2 years back - cause unknown - oh and Stanley is about 10).

3 are B & W, while Colin is semi-long haired in ginger and white.

[Mash]

These plug in drugs, maybe not species specific, I breathe too, some old hands here may have noticed that I have become less antagonistic?

Yes indeed, you now just make me nervous

[myles]

I drink herbal tisanes, grow a few obscure herbs myself, and occasionally use home grown pain relief medication.

I have the 1826 version of Culpeper's Herbal.
I also have the 1881 version of Mrs Fishers Old Southern Cooking, if anyone is interested in such things.
I like old books.

And cats!!!

[Mash]

I have a Culpepers - fascinating. We grow toothache plants

Never heard of Mrs Fishers..... Might have to Google that one.

[phantom]

I have a Culpepers - fascinating. We grow toothache plants

Never heard of Mrs Fishers..... Might have to Google that one.

Indeed. It amazes me the number of books like this, thatve dropped out of sight through time.

It'd be brilliant if there was a market for digitising them when they're rediscovered so they could be obtained in Kindle/other e-reader format (some of the cooking/food progs have food historian types but we're they find old cook books and similar is rather mysterious - they must have lots of spare time to go digging in junk shops, boot markets, etc)........

[Mash]

This is handy then..

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49513.
That is Culpepers.
Mrs Fishers is also available.

But are they as good as holding it in your hand?

[phantom]

This is handy then..

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49513.
That is Culpepers.
Mrs Fishers is also available.

But are they as good as holding it in your hand?

Ah yes, how stupid of me to forget P.G. (used to have my e-reader app set up for it, but that went with a change of phone so ATM it's only set up for feedbooks - but I've read all the classics they offer so will have to delve and reconfigure it for P.G.).

[Easydrinker]

ebooks are great, not the same as a paper copy, but readilly accessible.
Here ends the defense and prosecution.

Robert.

[myles]

There is always the Internet Archive - https://archive.org/details/texts

[buffalobob]

Jenever does sound very interesting and has been on my to do list for ages. I've read a little bit about it, but not enough. Odin I remember speaks highly of it, thats good enough for me .
Re bengal moggies (gorgeous cats) being aggressive, when I was a youth I was admiring a wildcat that was dosing in the window of a camping shop window in Coldstream, it noticed a terrier on a lead walk past and was outside tearing lumps out of it straight away no messing. Lady dog owner had to beat it off with a brolly. Not sure if it was genetically 100% wildcat but it looked amazing. Not the sort of thing you see everyday.