So, I went and got legit...

[BlindXX]

Hey people, thought I'd tell a quick story. After a few years bootlegging gin on my little airstill (and t500 with modular ss triclamp bits as a column) someone told me I should sell sell it. I'd been getting a lot of positive reviews but as it was all friends and family I was a little bit cautious. Anyway I thought about it and finally decided to give it a go. In December last year, I applied for a rectifiers and compounders license. These came through in January. Since then I've researched the EU laws in bottle labelling, god knows how long I've spent on the phone regarding insurance and plagued HMRC with their specific requirements when their documentation isn't totally clear.

We launch "One Eyed Harry" on Saturday 23rd November!

No, I'm only half way to where I want to be - I can't sell direct to the public, and even my wholesale license is yet to materialise despite HMRC having the stuff the required over a month ago. Its taken a long time to organise and I've learnt the hard way about print production times (Bottle labels arrive the night before launch!). Hopefully it will work out. We shall see.

Anyway, hope I'm not breaking any forum rules with the last bit, but if anyone lives near Waltham Abbey (J26 M25) come along and buy a drink. Details can be found on our Facebbok page - https://www.facebook.com/oneeyedharry/
Launch Party details - https://www.facebook.com/events/508601519731764/
Ask for Neil and introduce yourself!

[jacquie]

nice one - have been looking at getting r&c licence but it all looked so arduous i put it on hold - good luck - jack

[phantom]

Dreamt about this for maybe 10+ years, but not down the R&C route. I originally researched a full distillers ticket as I wanted to have more of an influence with the base spirit (legacy grains and potatoes was the idea).

Unfortunately, it was too far out of my price range then, and still is now so it looks like I'll just have to keep my head down and keep playing at it for myself........

But good on yer for giving it a go

[jacquie]

question - does this mean that you are buying in neutral to rectify - i was under the impression that in order to produce your own neutral you would need a distillers licence? My brilliant idea was mobile gin school, like tupperware but way more fun, but sadly licences are tied to single addresses hmrc needs to catch up with new ideas.

[BlindXX]

Thanks for the positivity. After a lot of research, I found that the real cost was with the full distillers licence, as was most of the red tape. The Rectifier/compounder license is free, but you have to buy your booze in duty paid. That is the kicker. All the other crap with rules and regs was mainly due to not being able to afford to pay someone who knows the rules so I had to research it myself. On the plus side, I've learnt a lot about the legalities I might not otherwise have known. All in all, the total cost will be around 3.5K - approx £1200 for 25l pure ethanol, and £1000 labels. The rest is all the bits and pieces. Its amazing when you find where all money actually goes!

Edit - cross post with the previous reply - this should answer your question but to clarify, yes, I have to buy ethanol in. I'm only allowed to re-distill to add flavour.

[Jennysgin]

That all sounds like an exciting adventure!
Good luck with your new venture and let us know when your product is available to buy

[Mash]

Excellent news. Nice to see someone having a go. Just don't forget us when you are rich and famous eh!

[BlindXX]

That all sounds like an exciting adventure!
Good luck with your new venture and let us know when your product is available to buy

23rd We go live (so a week today). Theoretically it will be available as from then. But not direct to the public, only to retailers. Of which we currently have one.

[Jennysgin]

Well you have to start somewhere! That's one more than the rest of us

[Easydrinker]

I really do not want to piss on your parade.
I sincerley wish you well with your venture.
The numbers that you quote imply that your product has to be high priced to be worth the effort.
I wish you well with that, in a world now filled with bespoke Gin.
I have tenous connections with two gin rectifers, one maybe a little larger than your buisiness, and one attached to an established distillery.
I have a comprehension of the challenges that you face.

I am left asking myself the question of why someone with a legitimate rectifying buisiness is stll posting on an illicit forum?
As this one is.
If I were you, and had my buisiness head on, I would F*** right off, shouting my goodbyes, maybe, to the sound of thundering hooves.

Just saying it as I see it.

Robert.

[phantom]

I really do not want to piss on your parade.
I sincerely wish you well with your venture.

{snip}

Just saying it as I see it.

Robert.

After reading ED's post, it reminded me too. I've delivered quite a bit of NGS, as we have about 4 or 5 craft rectifying companies locally. Can't say about how the actual "trading" side pans out, but I've shifted gins like this by the pallet load.

Hence, positive vibes heading toward BlindXX and the venture, but with no illusions of how competitive this can be.

Actually, I was watching something on the local news about a fortnight back. It was an article about "whether Rum is the new Gin"? but I suspect anyone wanting to expand out product-wise would need a full distillers ticket to be able to do that i.e. expand into a full range.

Perhaps the gin will allow expansion of license to do just that, so getting a "foot in the door" for all types of craft spirit ?

and no, this isn't criticism in any way. just me thinking aloud and adding a few more "bones" to my dream..........

[BlindXX]

In response to the above two posts - I am fully aware of the competitive nature of the industry. I work as a dental technician for a day job. In a market that was opened to China a few years ago causing the arse to fall out of the UK side of things there are always people who will be willing to pay teh extra for something they perceive to have be the better product. As long as you can walk the walk etc. I see this as the same - a pretty individual product with an emphasis on hand made (I believe in everything hand made having value, even in its imperfections - I'm old school like that). And Local. This goes a surprisingly long way. We don't need a lot to break even (150 bottles a year) and as it was my hobby anyway, there isn't much to lose. I will always regret the not trying. We all know the success stories - The best man at my mates wedding runs the Cambridge Gin Distillery - so I feel its worth a bash.

As to why I still post in this forum? I've come to realise a few things.
1 - As long as duty is paid, you're not selling illegally and nothing goes bang, I don't think HMRC gives a shit.
2 - Just because you're not supposed to be doing it, it doesn't mean that you don't have damn good ideas.

So, why not use the knowledge?

[Jennysgin]

It will be interesting to hear how things progress.
You don't often get the chance to find out what happens behind the scenes and there may be others on here that harbour notions along the same lines.
Good luck with everything and keep us up to date with your successes and challenges!

[BlindXX]

Thought I'd resurrect an old thread and let people know how things are going - hope no-one minds!

The first few months went ok, sold a few bottles with through our local wine bar, but missed the Christmas rush due to HMRC being late on awarding our AWRS permit. Due to other licensing and permits rules we are only allowed to sell to bars/restaurants or wholesalers (people who will sell the alcohol on) and not to the public as we have no premises licence. Talks started with McMullens Brewery.

Then Covid-19 happened. Pretty much stopped everything dead except for sales through the wine bar who did a delivery service. Timing sucks. The other pubs we had our gin placed in have not yet re-opened. Trying to convince anyone to pick up a new product line in this financial climate is rather difficult!

Time for new avenues of sales - Premises Licence application officially started today. Hopefully internet sales will be live at the beginning of October. We have some other local independent and chain venues in our sights too. Financially its not been too bad - recouped 25% ish of initial outlay. Time will tell if it can ever work. Worst case, I shall hopefully have all the relevant licences and permits to make and sell to anyone, as and when.

Lockdown gave me time for new recipes, and we have ideas for the future. My day job keeps me busy.

Stay safe everyone

[Mash]

Way to go. The premises licence should be a walk in the park.

Good luck.

[Easydrinker]

Good to hear from you BlindXX.
Looking at worse case scenario, you have a lot of Gin to drink!
Hope you reach your sales target.

Robert.

[BlindXX]

Way to go. The premises licence should be a walk in the park.

Good luck.

Had to get a personal licence first, and then a 20 page form to fill in. Fortunately there was a very nice lady on the council who has helped me through! Thanks for the responses. Since I started this I realised that the whole distilling processes actually really pees meet off. I now just rectify to make the gin as I have to buy my alcohol, and the difference that the commercial ethanol has Vs the absolute best I ever produced is astronomical. It's amazing what a few hundred grand and some expertise can do to the flavour!
It's nice to be back, been off the forums for a while and forgotten what a nice community it is here.

[Easydrinker]

Just a cheeky thought.
I have seen the IBC's of Ethanol for sale, and yes, if you rectify, that has to be your source.
How much effort, and how many stills did you try/use beforehand?

Robert.

[BlindXX]

Just a cheeky thought.
I have seen the IBC's of Ethanol for sale, and yes, if you rectify, that has to be your source.
How much effort, and how many stills did you try/use beforehand?

Robert.

Certainly not as much/many as I should have. Lots of runs on the airstill, not so many with a modular column and t500 boiler. TBH, it then became a joint quality of life and legal issue. Mrs didn't want constant still runs in the kitchen and jars everywhere and legally a gin must be produced from a minimum 96% ethanol. I found the stripping runs boring so it was a logical step to just stop worrying about it. I wouldn't now anyway due to being on the radar. For me, the real fun is in the flavouring and chasing that last few % is beyond my skill.

I have developed a whole new level of respect for the airstill - the consistency is amazing. The still runs are identical to nearly the second with overall output percentages usually within a % of each other. Can't fault it.

[Mash]

Music to my ears. I have always championed the little guy.
It's refreshing to know the people have noticed.

[Easydrinker]

Good response BlindXX.

Robert.

[BlindXX]

So, probably my final update on this post. During the lockdown I applied for my personal and premises licence. Approx £600, 1 objection, 1 environmental health visit and a council meeting later Myself and my house/kitchen are now fully licenced to make and sell alcoholic beverages! Its been a struggle to get this far as we couldn't afford to pay anyone to do anything for us. Fortunately my better half is a photographer and digital artist, so label design was right up her street! There was a huge amount of legal stuff to get my head around from bottle labelling through to correct website terms and conditions, but for anyone thinking of doing it, it is possible. Its taken nearly 2yrs to get here though but we do both work full time too. Webdesign is a ******* nightmare - but as of late November we are now live and taking sales!

If anyone is interested in checking us out, we are at www.oneeyedharry.co.uk, https://www.facebook.com/oneeyedharry or oneeyedharrygin on Instagram.

I doubt it's as good as some of you produce at home, and it certainly isn't cheap, but at least it's finally out there!

[Easydrinker]

I am genuinely happy to read that you have jumped the hoops and got there mate.
As you know, it is a competetive market.
Wishing you well.

Robert.

[phantom]

Absolutely f*****g brilliant

Good on yer with the efforts and may it never make a loss......

[Mash]

Wishing you all the very best. Please keep us posted.